Navigating Immigration Complexities, feat. Andy Semotiuk, US & Canadian Immigration Lawyer
Layci Nelson (00:02.136)
Hello friends and welcome back to Confessions of a Terrible Leader. I'm your host and let us never forget former terrible leader Layci Nelson. I am thrilled to welcome Andy Semotiuk to the show today. He is a US and Canadian immigration attorney, an author of four books, and he also writes for Forbes. You're a busy man right now, aren't you Andy? Welcome to the show.
Andy Semotiuk (00:24.977)
You're a busy man right now, aren't you? And welcome to the show. Very busy, especially with what's going on in the United States and in Canada.
Layci Nelson (00:33.678)
Absolutely. I have so many questions for you as just a lay person who is watching all of this unfold and go, I don't even begin to understand the complexities of it and how, what are your FAQs right now? Like, what are people asking you? What are your days filled with currently?
Andy Semotiuk (00:59.729)
Well, there's a lot of people who wanna go up to Canada because they're not happy with what's going on in the US, but there are also a lot of Canadians that wanna go down to the United States largely because they wanna make a lot of money and the business world is more attractive for them down there. But there's, I just wrote an article today on Forbes.
Layci Nelson (01:04.545)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (01:12.611)
Right.
Layci Nelson (01:16.514)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (01:20.216)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (01:25.977)
related to the deportation efforts that are taking place in the United States. And it's a huge issue. There are huge aspects to it. So for example, they're deporting 11 million so-called undocumented immigrants, that is to say people who came without papers or permission to come to the United States or overstayed.
Layci Nelson (01:30.871)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (01:51.31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (01:56.293)
They're also deporting people who came recently, about 935,000, I believe it is, who came under the new apps that the Biden administration introduced to allow people to come to the United States. They're deporting people who are on what are called temporary protective status on that program, people from Haiti, Venezuela, Ukraine.
Layci Nelson (02:04.184)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (02:24.376)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (02:26.619)
There are people being deported from or who are on what's called humanitarian parole. That is to say people who were allowed into the country given that they were fleeing from somewhere else, just given permission to be in the country for a starter. And these programs are all being canceled and these people are being deported. And in addition to that, there are
Layci Nelson (02:34.542)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (02:43.214)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (02:51.171)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (02:54.491)
cancellations of student visas. For example, South Sudan appears to be a problem country for the United States and 300 students from South Sudan have had their visas canceled. There is a Turkish woman who has had her visa canceled because evidently she was at pro-Palestinian protest. There are...
Layci Nelson (03:09.854)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (03:23.741)
the head of the Columbia students protest has had his visa canceled and these are two students, student visas, but these are like the Turkish woman is a PhD student studying in the United States and the other guy's from Columbia doing some, I don't know, some advanced studies. There's an announcement to the effect that
Layci Nelson (03:37.662)
Right, right.
Andy Semotiuk (03:50.833)
the immigration authorities will be reviewing the social media activities of people, students in the United States in particular, with a view to see if they have made any anti-Semitic comments on their social media outlets. And if so, that will result in a removal. So there are all these things taking place. What can I say? There's a lot.
Layci Nelson (04:17.742)
There's a lot going on. Well, particularly in the Forbes article you just wrote, how are you guiding people or guess informing maybe is a more appropriate word, what does it look like in your world, in your life? What does it mean for you right now to have this awareness? And how are people accessing?
Andy Semotiuk (04:22.224)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (04:44.812)
what you offer, what are you doing for people in these situations that are probably really scary if you thought you were, especially if you thought, well, for anyone, but if you thought you were here legally, if you were here legally, there was no thinking about it. You were here legally and then it's revoked. I can only imagine how unsettling that would be.
Andy Semotiuk (05:04.24)
There isn't that very much that I can do. mean, there are ways that you can go move from one program to another. So for example, make an asylum claim if you're in a temporary status like a humanitarian parole, or if there's a family member that might be able to sponsor you, or if you get married and the spouse might sponsor you, or...
Layci Nelson (05:08.994)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (05:15.022)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (05:22.2)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (05:33.039)
there may be ways that an employer may be able to open up a door for you to be able to stay, or there may be a way to discover a citizenship that you didn't know about that would make it possible for you to stay. But these are Hail Marys. There's not much, like the blunt force of deportation for the most part is going forward.
Layci Nelson (05:48.27)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (06:02.737)
very few people will find, I'll give you a typical example. There are many people in the US who are about to be deported, so they want to come to Canada. Now you would think that Canada could somehow accommodate this, but the problem is, if you're an asylum claimant, there's this so-called safe third country agreement.
Layci Nelson (06:09.507)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (06:27.909)
which blocks someone who comes to Canada saying, I want to claim asylum in Canada because the United States is regarded as a safe third party country and therefore you are supposed to make your claim inside the United States. So you're turned away at the border. If you come illegally across the border, you'll be arrested and taken back to the border, US border and turned back to the US authorities.
Layci Nelson (06:39.182)
Mmm.
Andy Semotiuk (06:56.003)
If you are in any kind of non-immigrant status, so for example, all the ones that I've excuse me, let's say you're a student, let's say you're a worker, let's say you're on humanitarian parole, let's say you're on temporary protective status or any of these categories, since you're a non-immigrant in...
the United States and you want to come to Canada, almost certainly you will need a visa to come to Canada. So what kind of visa can you apply for? A visitor's visa would be the most common answer. But to get a visitor's visa, you have to be able to show that you're going to leave the country at the end of your period of authorized stay. But since you are not really leaving the United States to come back,
Layci Nelson (07:31.214)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (07:37.496)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (07:46.894)
Hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (07:53.261)
and you certainly don't want to go back to your country of origin because there's a war on or you're afraid of being persecuted or whatever, any non-immigrant status of that nature in the United States pretty much makes it impossible for you to enter Canada. The only way you could apply to come to Canada is if you applied for permanent status because then you don't have to show
Layci Nelson (08:11.886)
Mm.
Andy Semotiuk (08:20.603)
that at the end of your period of authorized stay, you're going to leave. You can say, I wanna stay permanently. So, I mean, an example would be, let's say I marry an American girl. I'm in the United States. Let's do it the other way. Yeah, I marry an American girl. Not an American girl, but a girl who's in America in one of these non-immigrant statuses.
Layci Nelson (08:24.846)
Got it.
Layci Nelson (08:34.798)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (08:40.056)
All right. Yes.
Andy Semotiuk (08:49.425)
So I can sponsor her to come to Canada and she can come because she's applying to stay permanently. So those are some examples of what's going on at the border and what we're dealing with.
Layci Nelson (08:53.4)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (08:57.997)
Right.
Layci Nelson (09:07.182)
The level of complexity right now is overwhelming. And go ahead.
Andy Semotiuk (09:11.281)
Let me, sorry, I'll just share a few other things. That's America, let's say, and Canada as a neighbor. But there's a lot going on around the world that is causing a lot of heartache. So number one, there's a war in Ukraine. are like six million Ukrainians that left Ukraine looking for a place to stay. And of those 300,000 ended up.
Layci Nelson (09:16.258)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (09:28.696)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (09:36.152)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (09:39.959)
in the United States, roughly. There's Gaza and what's going on in Gaza, the war there. A lot of people want to leave, but they can't because they can't get visas to come or whatever. But that's a lot of, you know, that's causing a lot of turmoil, a lot of discussion going on. 50,000 people dead in Gaza, 50,000. Like that's like, that's a lot. The war in Ukraine, incidentally, has killed
Layci Nelson (09:52.418)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (10:00.717)
I know.
Layci Nelson (10:05.816)
Yes.
Andy Semotiuk (10:09.827)
probably over 900,000 Russian soldiers and probably about 300,000 Ukrainian soldiers or maybe more. So you got like big, big losses. Now on top of that, on top of that, in the world today, there are over a hundred million people who have been uprooted and do not have a place to live.
Layci Nelson (10:14.574)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (10:19.662)
Gosh, so much human loss. Yes.
Andy Semotiuk (10:39.249)
a hundred million and they're around, they're floating around. There are 50 million, roughly 50 million refugees in the world who are sitting around in refugee camps. So for example, there's refugee camps with over a million people living in the refugee camp. I have a friend.
Layci Nelson (10:53.795)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (11:00.91)
And that's a big city. I mean, that's a, sorry, I can't even fathom how large that must be. Continue, please. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (11:04.311)
yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (11:09.069)
I mean, I have a friend who's a lawyer here in Canada who came from one of those refugee camps. He lived there for 12 years and somehow managed to come to Canada, study law, become a lawyer. And today he's practicing asylum law here in Canada in Toronto. He's Ethiopian and he's quite an amazing person.
Layci Nelson (11:23.213)
Wow.
Layci Nelson (11:37.912)
Mm.
Andy Semotiuk (11:39.353)
So that these are all, you know, there's people from the African continent who desperately wanna come up to Europe, to the European continent to escape poverty and climate change and violence and war and everything like that. So there's this huge cocktail of trouble all over the world that's looking for some relief. And you know, they're,
Layci Nelson (12:06.167)
Yes.
Andy Semotiuk (12:08.825)
looking to America, Canada, Australia, Argentina for potential places to settle and make a life. So that's all in the mix.
Layci Nelson (12:11.47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (12:19.555)
Yeah.
Man, Andy, what do we do as citizens who our hearts are breaking for all of this extreme amount of trauma and loss and we want to offer some sort of relief and we don't even know where to start. What recommendation do you have for a citizen in Canada or in the United States that
Andy Semotiuk (12:34.096)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (12:50.41)
We just feel absolutely powerless watching all of this. Is there any practical advice you have for us?
Andy Semotiuk (12:55.888)
Yeah.
It's a, okay. There are things that can be done. It's not a hopeless situation. But you need rational, intelligent leaders. You can't have people who are unpredictable, who are not following the rules, who...
Layci Nelson (13:16.365)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (13:27.503)
believe that they've been elected and therefore they can do whatever they want and everybody just shut up and follow. Well, for example, let's take the 11 million undocumented, first of all, it's crazy to think you can deport 11 million undocumented immigrants.
Layci Nelson (13:53.55)
11 million people. Yes.
Andy Semotiuk (13:57.249)
Not only is it like apart from the feasibility, there's economic reasons why that's ridiculous, and there's even moral reasons why that's ridiculous. And just to touch on a few. Of the 11 million people in the United States, and it's probably more, it could be up to 20 million. There's a small community of people who deserve to be kicked out. They're criminals, murderers, rapists, you know,
Layci Nelson (14:22.956)
yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (14:27.607)
a terrible people and they should be kicked out and they are being kicked up. Bravo everybody. I don't think anybody would say, wait a minute, don't deport these people. No, no, me neither. there's, and in terms of numbers that may be, I don't know, I think it's less than 2 million of all those people who are in that category. Yeah. And it's good that
Layci Nelson (14:29.453)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (14:35.181)
Yes.
I have not met anyone who has said that. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (14:51.106)
Right, are in that category, yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (14:55.109)
You know, whatever the administration is doing to get these people out, great. But even there, there's a procedure that you can follow. You can't show up at someone, you know, in the middle of the night without in just ordinary clothing with a hoodie and arrest them and take them in a van. Like there are procedures that normally you would take even a criminal. You know, you have to deal with a person. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (15:21.644)
Right. There's a process that's transparent. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (15:25.825)
Yeah, yeah. So, but those people, okay, out they go, you know, happy to have them go goodbye. Now, what about the rest? So let's say there's, let's say there's two million of those. These are people who cross the border illegally, you know, cross the Rio Grande, you know, they shot people, you know, somewhere in one city or another on a subway or whatever it is, you know, raped women in the dark or whatever. Out.
Layci Nelson (15:32.323)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (15:39.342)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (15:45.272)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (15:54.584)
Yeah, bye, gone.
Andy Semotiuk (15:55.971)
So nine million left. Now what do you do with these nine million? So if you look at that population, two thirds of that population has been in the United States for over 10 years. 10 years. Yeah, yeah. Now they came improperly. There's no doubt about it. They came improperly. And that's the, you know, that's the thing that sticks in the throat, I guess, for some people. You know, how can you be here if you're...
Layci Nelson (16:08.46)
Mm, wow, that's a long time.
Layci Nelson (16:22.242)
Right, right. You're a criminal. You came illegally. You count as a criminal, Yep.
Andy Semotiuk (16:25.391)
But after 10 years, But they're not criminals. To come, let's say you come to the United States as a student and you overstay, now you're in this category, you're not a criminal. It's a civil wrong, but you're not a criminal. You can't call them a criminal. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (16:40.91)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (16:45.774)
Can you expand on that? I think people do not understand the difference between criminal and civil and within our own laws. How does that work?
Andy Semotiuk (16:53.859)
Okay. sure, okay. I don't know about you, but I drive fast. In fact, most of the time I'm speeding. If I ever get caught, I know I'm guilty. You I deserve it because I'm going everywhere above the speed limit. That's an offense, but it's not a criminal offense. A criminal offense is a serious offense. It's something like killing someone or hurting someone.
Layci Nelson (17:01.485)
Mm-hmm.
same.
Andy Semotiuk (17:22.657)
or stealing money or breaking into someone's home. That's a criminal offense. But these people who came by the law that's on the books, they did not commit a criminal offense. Yes, they came improperly, even illegally to the United States, but they're not criminals. However, by our own definition, but...
Layci Nelson (17:28.568)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (17:44.864)
Mm-hmm by our own definition Yep
Andy Semotiuk (17:50.393)
the people who are doing the deporting are saying, we're getting rid of all criminals, meaning all 11 million are criminals. Well, okay, this is a technical difference, I suppose. But, know, they say, for example, it's a mere technicality. But, you know, the presumption of innocence is a mere technicality, but it's not a mere technicality.
Layci Nelson (17:56.024)
Right.
Layci Nelson (18:11.854)
Mm.
Andy Semotiuk (18:19.319)
It's fundamental. know, the law and how you deal with people is not a technicality. It's a fundamental process. But anyway, okay, so these people, all right, they came illegally. You have to deal with that fact in some way. You gotta punish them because they came illegally. Now, one punishment is get them on a plane and kick them out. And don't bother to give them a hearing. Just get them on the plane and out, which is what they're trying to do. They're saying it's an emergency.
Layci Nelson (18:21.375)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (18:27.297)
Right.
Layci Nelson (18:41.678)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (18:49.105)
The enemy alien act from 1700s justifies, because it's an emergency, we're gonna put them on a plane out. That's the way they're doing it. No due process. No. Right, right. Now, if you're in the United States, even if you commit a wrong, you're entitled to due process. There's some due process. A lawyer, a hearing, a judge deciding you gotta go. These are things that, you know.
Layci Nelson (18:57.89)
Yep. No due process. You don't get any, you're not a citizen. Bye. Yep.
Andy Semotiuk (19:17.539)
and you have certain rights, you know, like to present your case and so on. Imagine nine million people. Yeah. Yeah. Due process. Yeah. Imagine nine million people now need due process. You got to schedule the judge, the lawyer, you know, the person concerned, you know, the prosecutor all for a day when they have a hearing on this person's case and decide, yes, this person should be.
Layci Nelson (19:22.914)
And that is constitutional. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (19:41.646)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (19:47.301)
That's a lot of processing. Like it's impossible, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. And so what they're doing is they're just arresting these people, what's the whole is focused, whatever that saying is. one of the challenge, this is a large topic, but anyway, one of the challenges is, let's say you're from Venezuela. So we wanna send you back to Venezuela. The question is, the Venezuela government
Layci Nelson (19:49.568)
right, right.
Layci Nelson (20:07.916)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (20:16.719)
receive you, accept you. Not every country is willing to accept them. So if you're from Cuba, maybe they're not gonna allow you to send them back to Cuba. So what do we do? You arrest the guy, he's here illegally, but you can't send him back. What are you gonna do with him? Throw him in jail. What jail? Jails can't accommodate all these people. So they're building special holding places.
Layci Nelson (20:17.102)
Thank you.
Layci Nelson (20:22.03)
All right.
Layci Nelson (20:32.526)
Alright.
Andy Semotiuk (20:45.231)
like on Air Force bases and places in Arizona and I think Texas and California, where these people are gonna be held. So they're gonna have sort of like internment camps to hold these people because they can't be deported. Yeah, and they can't be here. So now what we're gonna have is this. Now, I'm sorry, I'm spending a lot of time talking about the problem.
Layci Nelson (20:48.877)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (21:01.784)
Right? That no one will take. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (21:15.067)
but I'll give you some solutions in a minute as well. So, yeah.
Layci Nelson (21:17.044)
Okay, thank you. But this is fascinating, especially that we work with a lot of people in agriculture and manufacturing, and we're talking about a lot of very real people with real faces and their families. And if they're not directly impacted, they're related to someone who is or is going to be. So this is definitely relevant.
Andy Semotiuk (21:29.221)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (21:35.601)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you pull these people out of the economy and put them in a holding cell where they're not producing anything. So, before they're making money and feeding us and clothing us and so on. And now they're sitting and we're, yeah. And now we're paying for them to sit in a jail while we figure out what to do with these people, right? Plus.
Layci Nelson (21:46.158)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (21:54.988)
Right, and paying taxes, yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (22:05.521)
The hatred, the emotional upheaval, the sense of confusion and everything that goes with everything. So this is where we're at. How do you solve this problem? Number one, I say like this, if you've been here 10 years, that's good enough for me, Charlie. 10 years, there's gotta be a way for you, if you've been a good boy otherwise than coming into the country.
There's gotta be a way for you to be able to stay if you'll work and earn the right to stay permanently. How do you earn the right to stay permanently? Number one, no criminal record. Number two, pay your taxes. Number three, a fine possibly. I don't know what, $1,000, $5,000 that you have to pay off. Number four,
Layci Nelson (22:45.678)
Mmm.
Andy Semotiuk (23:10.245)
Community service, 500 hours of community service, supervised community service. You are gonna go to hospitals and help people who are sick. You are gonna go to nursing homes and help people who are old with their needs. You are gonna go around and paint up all this graffiti that's out there with white paint to make this place look nicer. You're gonna go out into our parks.
Layci Nelson (23:12.174)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (23:33.678)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Andy Semotiuk (23:38.787)
and clean up the parks and the various places where people go with picnics and stuff to make it nice and clean. You're gonna clean up all the highways and so on. And for 500 hours they work. But by doing so, they're paying off the wrong that they committed by coming. Now the argument will be, well, yeah, but this person came illegally and there are other people who applied legally.
Layci Nelson (23:51.566)
Mmm.
Andy Semotiuk (24:06.147)
and they were not given the priority because this person came. That's probably true, but those people who applied legally by now, 10 years later, are probably already in the country. So they're both in the country. The illegal and the legal are both in the country, but the illegal one had the ability to be in the country for five, six, seven years while the other one was still applying. So it's a delay.
Layci Nelson (24:17.422)
10 years, yeah.
Layci Nelson (24:22.894)
Hmm.
Layci Nelson (24:33.155)
Hmm.
Layci Nelson (24:36.782)
Mm-hmm. Delay.
Andy Semotiuk (24:36.881)
The difference is delay. One was delayed, the other was delayed. But both are in the country. So in my view, the way you deal with that is you say, okay, you can get a green card and you can become a citizen earning your way along, but it's going to take you longer than someone who just came the regular way. But at least you're both in the country and you're both contributing to the country. So that's the way I would deal with the issue of 11 million illegal immigrants.
Layci Nelson (24:41.89)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (24:56.75)
Mm. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (25:07.089)
Now, does that block or does that set a precedent for people now somewhere outside the US who wants to come and come in illegally? That they'll say, well, if you come, eventually they'll let you stay.
There's gotta be some enforcement at the border. The Republicans are right about that. You can't just let people, it's not a sieve it's a place where you have to account for. Now, the way you have to deal with those people is the countries they came from, if there's escaping violence, gangsters, poverty, no future, no education,
Layci Nelson (25:37.4)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (25:47.416)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (25:54.053)
We have to help those countries economically build up, so that there is a reason to be there. People don't leave a country for just esoteric reasons. They leave for good reasons, war, violence, et cetera.
Layci Nelson (26:09.934)
Right. Right. Yeah, it is very terrifying to think of leaving and starting over somewhere in a nation where I didn't understand it and I didn't speak the language and I was far away from all of my family that didn't make the trek with me. I don't think anyone does makes that decision lightly.
Andy Semotiuk (26:25.265)
Yeah. So, we have to help those countries, I'm thinking of South American countries in particular, Latin American countries, stabilize and lead a good life of some kind, make it a good life, which means economic assistance and intelligent development programs for places like that, the breeding grounds for people who are coming up this way. And we have to be generous.
Layci Nelson (26:34.338)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (26:45.902)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (26:54.809)
not only in South America, but elsewhere as well, to these people who have no place and are in a refugee camp, like hopeless. So that's part of the solution. And I would also say, I see it this way.
Layci Nelson (27:04.46)
Right,
Andy Semotiuk (27:15.121)
You, you live in America. If you have a family member, uncle, aunt, brother, sister, whoever it is, and you want to sponsor them to come to the United States, and you're financially willing to take responsibility for their well-being for a period of time, three years, let's say, you can file an application to sponsor them and they can come.
Layci Nelson (27:38.606)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (27:43.918)
Mm.
Andy Semotiuk (27:44.517)
provided they're not criminals, and they're not sick, they can come based on your sponsorship. I think that's a beautiful way to run immigrant program. My family, for example, my aunt Helen, my uncle, Amel, and so on, came to the United States as refugees after World War II.
Layci Nelson (27:46.786)
Right. Right.
Layci Nelson (27:57.005)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (28:08.27)
Mm.
Andy Semotiuk (28:09.627)
they were sponsored and they had to work to pay off their sponsorship and they did. And they became wealthy and they died wealthy and happy in the United States, guess. I believe, yeah. If you're a, let's say you're a lawyer and there's a lawyer overseas who wants to come and you feel an affinity because you're a lawyer, you can sponsor that person. If you're a farmer, there's a farmer, you can sponsor that person.
Layci Nelson (28:15.438)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (28:21.506)
Yeah, the American dream. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (28:28.28)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (28:35.726)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (28:38.417)
If you're a Mennonite and there's a Mennonite who wants to come, you can sponsor that person. you're a, you know, like professional or, you know, if you're a Mormon or like, if you're Jewish and there's a Jewish person overseas who wants to come, you can sponsor them. Same if you're Muslim, there's a Muslim who wants to. I believe that's the way that you have to run the immigration system by and large. And I think the, I think you've got to look at
Layci Nelson (28:43.276)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (28:51.438)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (29:03.15)
Hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (29:08.433)
Permanent sponsorships, not just a work, you know, not just a temporary, but the capacity to sponsor, you know, like the, the bride, you know, the mail order bride that comes in from overseas kind of a scenario. Okay, it's terrible. But on the other hand, it's actually the idea of bringing someone in and sponsoring them to stay permanently.
Layci Nelson (29:10.67)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (29:23.402)
Right, right, Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (29:34.275)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (29:34.915)
I think that's the way we're going to have to deal with immigration in the future. then, sorry, I'm kind of talking endlessly, but let me finish with just one thought.
Layci Nelson (29:44.046)
Yes, finish this thought and then I'm going to invite you into the confessional. this is, I could listen to you talk for forever because it is such a, to listen to someone who has the knowledge and the expertise and the personal experience that you have speak about this and obviously a huge heart. And it just comes through that you're so, you care so much about the real human lives that are caught up in the politics of their
Andy Semotiuk (29:48.369)
Okay.
Andy Semotiuk (29:57.777)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (30:05.274)
Bye.
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (30:12.288)
of all of our governments, right? There's the human lives that are caught up in it and affected by it and trying to look for solutions that are practical. It's very refreshing to hear different ideas. So I invite your thoughts. So thank you.
Andy Semotiuk (30:12.454)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (30:31.547)
Thank you. I don't know where I wanted to go with you, I'll just say.
These problems are solvable to some extent, but we also have to recognize this fact. America cannot be the solution for every displaced person in the world, even people who are fleeing terrible situations. There's a limit on what America can do, same for Canada, same for other countries. And so it's not possible for us
Layci Nelson (30:55.522)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (31:02.53)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Andy Semotiuk (31:10.437)
to have an open society that just accepts anybody who wants to come to America. We have to have a Congress that sets how many people can come per year and what type of people and from what countries. That's just part of, that's America, Canada, no matter where. And the sad reality is there will be many people, many, who will just not be able to come here.
Layci Nelson (31:24.238)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (31:32.366)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (31:40.43)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (31:40.441)
And so we have to do our best to figure out solutions overseas as well, helping overseas. Yeah. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (31:46.232)
to help those that can't make it. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your thoughts, your insight, your decades of experience. And it definitely gave me as citizen a lot to think about and definitely things to can, we always say, what's the pathway forward? And as we're hanging out with people and having, you know, over drinks and these are the topics that come up and to have some informed
thoughts and different ways to look at things in a different perspective to bring to the table and just bring into the American, for us, American lexicon of the way we talk about it is extremely helpful to hear varied perspectives. So thank you for sharing today all of that with us. And now we're going to switch it up, Andy.
Andy Semotiuk (32:34.139)
pleasure.
Layci Nelson (32:39.694)
And we're going to invite you into the confessional of the confessions of a terrible leader to share a story from your experience leading people, being a, obviously, you, you are influential in your field, writing for Forbes. And I'm sure you've had plenty of opportunities to make some pretty great mistakes in your journey, which
Andy Semotiuk (32:42.008)
into the professionals.
to share.
Andy Semotiuk (33:03.761)
Yeah, yeah.
Layci Nelson (33:09.366)
What would you like to share with us today as your mistake and how does that impact or misstep or learning opportunity, whatever you want to call it, how does that shape the way that you lead today?
Andy Semotiuk (33:22.371)
Okay, I'd love to pick up something from immigration, but I don't have something meaningful enough to share in that area other than this story, which is related to immigration, but is not right on theme. So the story is I was practicing law in this many years ago in Alberta, Canada, and a guy came to my office. He says, hi, I wanna introduce myself.
Layci Nelson (33:29.612)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (33:35.31)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (33:44.994)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (33:50.137)
I'm Vladimir Talinchuk and I'm a famous airplane designer. I said, well, that's very nice to meet you. Thank you. And I have all kinds of quacks and weirdos that come to see me all the time. So I don't just stand up and salute because you're an airplane designer. So I figure, OK, so I meet this guy and I figure, OK, I'm going to look this guy up. Now, back then, there was no computer to look up online.
Layci Nelson (34:05.624)
You don't take it on face value, yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (34:19.537)
So I had to go to the library, went to the library. Jane's airplane, famous airplane designers, he's there. He's got several designs in Jane's, the leading authoritative book. He's truly a world-class airplane designer in the field of what's called ultra-airplanes. These are light, ultra-light airplanes. They're planes below a certain threshold
Layci Nelson (34:37.452)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (34:44.664)
Okay.
Andy Semotiuk (34:49.605)
but still airplanes. So they're not like passenger airplanes or things that can carry a huge weight or anything, but they're just a kind of a subset, of hang gliders, but more than a glider, an airplane. So I started talking with him. Now I used to work at the UN as a journalist many years ago. And I wrote stories about immigration and stuff like that.
Layci Nelson (35:04.609)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (35:18.725)
but I got to know people at the UN. And I'm here in Edmonton at this time, talking to this airplane designer. And he says, I can build an airplane that's gonna be fantastic. We can sell it. It'll be the best in the market. I said, okay, let's form a company. Let's have you design this airplane. I've got some connections. Maybe we can make something out of this. Okay, so we did. So we formed the company, went around raising capital to...
build this airplane and sure enough he built an airplane a model like a know the model for building many airplanes and yeah prototype yeah and we had a pilot flying around doing circles in the air and all this kind of stuff with this prototype it was fantastic
Layci Nelson (35:55.266)
Yeah, yep. The prototype, yes.
Andy Semotiuk (36:08.241)
So we think, well, now what are we gonna do now? Where are we gonna produce this thing? And I talked to some people in New York from my UN days, and they said, hey, talk to the Chinese, they're interested. So I arranged a meeting, sure enough, they want to meet. We flew to New York to meet these Chinese people. And we had a...
Layci Nelson (36:13.678)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (36:36.561)
sit down. Now this guy, don't know, this story might be a little long but I'll try to make it as short as possible. This designer, this designer was a MiG pilot from Poland. He used to fly MiG jet airplane, you know, like war airplanes and he had a Polish passport and so now these Chinese guys invite us to go meet them in New York. So I said let's go. He says yeah, let's go. Go to the airport.
Layci Nelson (36:44.248)
So now I gotta find out what happened.
Andy Semotiuk (37:06.501)
Hey, what kind of passport you got? Polish. you can't go, you need a visa. my gosh. Andy, go by yourself, talk to these people. I go by myself. These Chinese guys say, this is great, let's do it. So we fly to China and we have all kinds of discussion and we're talking to this huge company, 10,000 engineers, Changfen Industry Corp in Beijing, China, talking about building these airplanes.
in a factory in China. Now, when we started with this guy, Vladimir, I says to him, Vladimir, you're from Poland. Are you ready to go to China? If they say, yeah, let's build a factory. You know, it's a communist country. You're from a communist. No problem, I'll do it. Are you sure? Yes, I will, for sure. Okay, so we fly to China and now we're in discussions with these engineers. Where can we build it? How?
Layci Nelson (37:43.053)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (38:06.309)
you know, how much, cetera. Many meetings later, we reach an agreement. They have a factory, they have an airport, it's on the outskirts of Beijing, we're gonna build airplanes. I think it was.
Layci Nelson (38:21.933)
Mm-hmm.
Andy Semotiuk (38:26.001)
I think it was 750 airplanes and the cost of the airplane. was very cheap. It's something like 7,500 US per airplane. It was fantastic. They flew to Canada to see the prototype and our pilot was flying around in circles. They're all watching there, you know, like it was unbelievable. All good. Everything's signed. Everything's ready. We're ready to go.
Layci Nelson (38:35.947)
my gosh, yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (38:56.561)
My designer dies of a heart attack.
Layci Nelson (39:01.793)
no.
Andy Semotiuk (39:02.065)
heart attack. And now, I'm left to pick up the pieces, what are we gonna do? Now, because it was unique, the guy was a unique designer, there weren't that many, there was one guy, was in California, he was a weirdo, he lived in the desert and he was an airplane designer, also in Jane's,
Layci Nelson (39:06.264)
so tragic in so many ways.
Layci Nelson (39:16.003)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (39:30.545)
So I contacted him, he flew up, he was checking the airplane, all this stuff. He said, well, but when it came, pushed the shove, no go, no go. So we're stuck, no designer, therefore no, like we have a prototype, but it's not gonna go, it's not gonna go without it. So I had to, so I had to talk to the Chinese and,
Layci Nelson (39:50.264)
Who's gonna make it? Right, right. Who's gonna oversee the project? Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (39:59.557)
bring them down saying, I'm sorry, it's not gonna work. The guys died, you know, we can't pull it together.
I had to talk to my friends in New York who set up all these meetings and also stir them, calm them down. I had to talk to the investors in the company who built the airplane and tell them we're going to lose all our money.
Layci Nelson (40:13.027)
Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (40:25.207)
and a freak thing happened, which is a tornado. Somehow a tornado happened and it hit the airplane, destroyed the prototype, same time, roughly. We kept the airplane on a farm and in Alberta, mean, the chances of having a tornado come along, it was actually in Saskatchewan is where we had the plane, but the chances of, you know, so it got hit, destroyed.
Layci Nelson (40:51.102)
my gosh. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (40:54.989)
No airplane, no nothing. No China, no, you know, they have a factory that they have to now do something with. All these guys who are preparing to build airplanes. So, so I had to, you know, and...
Layci Nelson (41:02.964)
wow.
Wow. What did you learn?
Andy Semotiuk (41:12.301)
I learned you're gonna go through life and the reality is it's almost impossible to go through life without hurting people. Not because you want to, I hope you don't want to, but just because you're doing things and life requires commitments and money and things and not everything works. And when it doesn't work, it hurts, people are hurt.
Layci Nelson (41:23.95)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (41:34.68)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Semotiuk (41:41.005)
And all you can do is minimize the hurt in situations like the pain and the hurt and comfort those who are hurting and do what you can to make the best of a bad situation and move on. So that's what I did.
Layci Nelson (41:47.896)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (41:59.63)
Yeah, every business owner listening to you right now is nodding in agreement and we know.
Andy Semotiuk (42:04.081)
I'm sure they have even worse things than what I did there, but that's my lesson. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (42:10.792)
man, well thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Andy, you've been an amazing guest. What is the best way for people, we'll drop every link you give us in the show notes, but what is the one best way to connect with you if there's a listener that really is highly engaged and wants to reach out? What's the best way to do it?
Andy Semotiuk (42:21.584)
Sure.
Andy Semotiuk (42:31.778)
I work for Pace Law Firm, P-A-C-E in Toronto. Just look up pacelawfirm.com and you can reach me that way.
Layci Nelson (42:41.974)
Amazing. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for your stories, your depth of knowledge. It's really been a pleasure. So, appreciate it.
Andy Semotiuk (42:50.865)
It's been a pleasure, Layci, to be with you and your crew. And I want to thank everybody for having me on your program.
Layci Nelson (42:56.149)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (42:59.808)
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, until next time, listeners, you know the drill, go manage like a leader.