Breaking the Cycle: Identifying and Overcoming Toxic Work Cultures, feat. Suhein Beck
Layci Nelson (00:01.208)
Hello listeners and watchers and welcome back to Confessions of a Terrible Leader. I'm your host and former Absolutely Terrible Leader, Lacey Nelson. Suhan, welcome to the show. Suhan Beck is joining us today. She is a speaker who is self-described as absolutely obsessed with culture in organizations and the link between understanding
Suhein (00:15.092)
Hi.
Layci Nelson (00:30.848)
multiculturalism as we think of it, organizationally, but globally, and the link between that and how people organize themselves and create the world we all live in. I probably slaughtered that, Suhan. Did I get close?
Suhein (00:46.036)
No, actually, you nailed it. It basically is how to cultivate cultures harmoniously from a wider multicultural lens. And because of my background being multicultural, I am a Circassian, I'm 100 % Circassian, that happened to be born in Syria, in Damascus, oldest city in civilization, and then a refugee to Germany, from Germany to the United States.
Layci Nelson (00:48.407)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (00:57.006)
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (01:06.446)
Okay.
Suhein (01:14.868)
And since then, have been, basically my family has been refugees five times in 1.5 generations.
Layci Nelson (01:22.594)
Holy moly, that's a lot happening in that DNA.
Suhein (01:26.0)
Yeah, so for us, you know, we're just we joke about it. We're like, it's just another Wednesday. Just pick up, start over in a new country, new language, new world, all over and learning the culture. And so that sense of adaptation and sensitivity has been something I've been fascinated with. And lo and behold, the the most difficult culture for me to adapt to was my own. You know, and this is what I try to
Layci Nelson (01:52.782)
Mmm.
Suhein (01:55.764)
showcase in my speaking engagements, my keynotes is you as a leader. You know, you think that you have to increase your culture quotient, you know, that's the new buzzword, you know, for the last few years. IQ EQ, now there's CQ cultural quotient. And I basically started off with, hey, do you know which culture is the hardest for you to learn?
Layci Nelson (01:59.373)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (02:07.392)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Suhein (02:24.37)
And I say it's your own. And the way you do it is you step out of yourself and look at your culture from the other perspective. And I'll give you the most simple finite example is tipping. So tipping is basically an American concept. It is a social unwritten contract that almost the rest of the world does not subscribe to. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (02:26.36)
well.
Layci Nelson (02:34.883)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (02:48.394)
No, they think we're weird.
Suhein (02:50.868)
It goes deeper and I've studied this, it goes deeper than just the concept of, you know, that's a weird concept. It goes to the point of them interpreting it as
corporate loophole of capitalism exploitation, which humanizes their own employees to basically become servants and beg or crumbs of your generosity as a customer versus, for example, Japanese culture and some European cultures, if you tip
Layci Nelson (03:08.814)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (03:16.366)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (03:24.248)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (03:32.06)
It is so offensive, especially to the owner of the restaurant or the company, that what, you don't think I'm taking care of my own, my family, my employees, which they consider the same, my tribe?
Layci Nelson (03:38.99)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (03:46.054)
And so that in of itself, they can chase you out and basically do a no soup for you. You know, that like, how dare you? You know, like I take care, I'm generous with my people. And so that concept is really a sense of like almost dehumanizing. so when I talk to organizations and the leaders, then I ask them and I say, no.
Layci Nelson (03:49.646)
Yeah, you're gone. Yes. Yeah.
Yes.
Suhein (04:13.616)
that put that into perspective for yourself as a leader? How do you see that? You know, now you're in the eyes of Europeans, of Asians, sophisticated customers from other world, you know, areas where they come and they see you as dehumanizing. How does that reflect on your code of honor as a leader?
Layci Nelson (04:23.286)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (04:37.358)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (04:38.644)
And so those are my two focal points really, code of honor because that comes from my Circassian cultural baggage. Code of honor is everything to a Circassian. We subscribe to what's called Edirgabza, which I'm also introducing as a framework for leaders in modern leadership culture. So that is the focal point and we have a systematic framework and it all revolves around one word, honor.
Layci Nelson (04:40.942)
Mm.
Yep.
Layci Nelson (04:56.963)
Mm.
Suhein (05:08.562)
and that word has practically been erased out of the American vernacular. use it in two variations. If you go into the Marines or if you make honor roll at school.
Layci Nelson (05:13.058)
Yeah, we do not use it.
Layci Nelson (05:17.773)
Mm-hmm.
yeah. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (05:21.864)
Those are the two contexts that most Americans would use that. Otherwise, they may use it in reference to, you know, in the Middle East, that was an honor killing. That must have been an honor killing where a man killed a woman to protect his honor.
Layci Nelson (05:33.486)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (05:39.228)
And so, you know, where I come from, it's like every action, every move, every breath we take, we take into consideration how would this reflect on our ancestors, on our tribal name? As an indigenous population of the Circassians from the Caucasus in Southern Russia, you know, how do we maintain our integrity and basically our brand?
Layci Nelson (05:52.974)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (06:06.444)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (06:08.06)
And that's what I go into is that, you as a corporation, as an association, what you're doing is you're protecting your brand. And that brand basically is a reflection of your code of honor. You know, are you going to just barely meet your product safety standards or are you going to rise above and beyond that? You know, are you going to just, you know, meet those minimal requirements of your ethical code or are you going to rise?
Layci Nelson (06:21.464)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (06:27.95)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (06:34.658)
Yeah.
Suhein (06:37.01)
And now with Gen Z's, what are they looking for? Exactly, they're looking for that purpose. Right, and they don't even know how to describe it. Like no one on, and I belong to National Speaker Associations and whatnot, I am the only speaker that I know of that is speaking about this topic. No one has even brought it up. And it took me one year to fine tune it in order for me to...
Layci Nelson (06:43.822)
They don't have that word, but that's what they want. Yes.
Layci Nelson (06:53.55)
Hmm.
Layci Nelson (06:58.862)
Mmm.
Suhein (07:06.184)
position it to market it because everyone was like, hmm, yeah, Suhan, that's just not sexy. What do you like? Are you the morale police? And I'm like, hell no, I can't even be the fashion police, let alone the morale police.
Layci Nelson (07:09.336)
Right.
Layci Nelson (07:23.576)
Right, right. what an absolutely beautiful, nuanced way and fresh perspective to bring in and thinking about honor and what it means to be honorable. I working, we work with people all day long and my understanding of honor probably is about one 10th of what yours is at best. the way you phrase like.
what are millennials or what are Gen Z looking for? Why are they leaving workplaces and droves? Yeah, they have a huge expectation that their leadership is going to be operating with a code of honor or in an honorable way. Even if they don't have the words that you're using, that's what they want and they're not gonna tolerate less than that. They're gonna walk and they do.
Suhein (08:11.582)
Thank you for the affirmation. I appreciate that because I am questioning myself. am launching this speaking campaign internationally. And it's strange because here in America is where it's needed. I get invited to speak abroad and they're like, duh, we know that.
Layci Nelson (08:20.418)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (08:34.124)
Yeah, it's familiar. So they're like, give us more of that. We know this is good. Reinforce the concept. Where here it's introduce the concept. We're not really sure what this is. you're up against that. Well, and also I wanna ask how much plays into, mean, American culture is exceptionally individualistic and probably more so than...
Suhein (08:40.05)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (09:01.684)
I would say almost anywhere else in the world.
Suhein (09:04.435)
93 % it's the most individualistic society in the world and it was measured and it's above, yes, no, you are spot on again. 93 % of the population considers themselves individualistic versus communal, social, collective.
Layci Nelson (09:13.262)
Okay, so I'm not imagining this, that we're really, really hyper-focused on ourselves.
Layci Nelson (09:29.614)
And we hear all the time the benefits of that, whether we know we're hearing it or not, because that is the water we're swimming in, right? Is this individualistic concept of existence.
Suhein (09:44.532)
Okay,
Layci Nelson (09:45.452)
Ha ha ha!
Layci Nelson (09:56.973)
Yeah.
Suhein (10:13.85)
So, you know, it's, again, this is scary for me because as a speaker, it's almost like I'm traipsing onto an area of like socialism and I'm like, no, we fought socialism, you know, as a circadian, like we fought Russia 101 years and we've been fighting socialism, you know, forever. And so by no means am I
Layci Nelson (10:20.472)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (10:28.94)
Right, right.
Layci Nelson (10:35.822)
Okay, that's a while. Yeah.
Suhein (10:43.932)
you know, you know, but it may sound like that in my speeches. So that's why I'm so careful in my speaking career that I don't trigger that fear in Americans of like, no, she's, you know, promoting collectivism and socialism. Like, no, Ayn Rand was one of my favorite authors of, you know, like, total individualism. I love I am an entrepreneur. I have lived the American dream. I've launched a product from zero to mass retail, you know.
Layci Nelson (10:48.717)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (10:56.086)
Right.
Layci Nelson (11:09.998)
Right, right.
Suhein (11:13.85)
Nationwide for every Bed Bath & Beyond, every Walmart, my product was featured. So I've lived the American dream. Do not underestimate how much I am patriotic. But there's some fallacies.
Layci Nelson (11:29.166)
Yes, 100%. When you are out there and you're talking, you've been doing the research for your speaking, for your models, your life experience, what would you... This might be a really big question, but how would you summarize some of the most harmful fallacies that are actually holding us back as a...
We'll say workplace society is probably really huge, but as like, as an American workplace, what are some of those fallacies that leaders ascribe to or believe in and don't even know they believe in that are just not serving us or our people?
Suhein (12:05.715)
Okay.
Suhein (12:10.76)
Lacey, this leads right into my confessions. I want to jumpstart on the confessions. I want to go straight into the confession. Because I subscribed to the fallacy. I bought the Kool-Aid. I bought it in wholesale quantity.
Layci Nelson (12:16.11)
I know. my gosh, Suhanna's the first.
Yes.
Layci Nelson (12:26.552)
Girl, let's go. The confessional is officially open the rest of the episode. What? You are the first guest I've ever had that started the conversation with me of like, can we just talk about me a tiny bit? Like my accomplishments, because they're all over the internet. You can find those wherever. Can we just talk about where I really screwed up like for most of the episode? I was like, absolutely. So.
Suhein (12:47.252)
I'm all confession.
I need to dump, I need to offload this stuff, all of this terribleness.
Layci Nelson (12:54.862)
Please, the floor is yours. So this segue, I guess I just unintentionally created for you. Take it away. What are these fallacies? Where did you buy in? Like the damage, all of it, the confession? Let's go.
Suhein (13:10.94)
Okay, sociologically speaking, you know, there are like five parameters to measure a society, whether it is individualistic versus collective. One of those, and I'm not gonna go into the five, but one of those is performance versus caring and quality of life. So let's just say your left hand or let's just say your right hand is performance. Okay.
Layci Nelson (13:29.454)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (13:38.648)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (13:40.274)
And that basically is our favorite words, KPI, chain, performance. As Americans, this is what is sexy. ROI, baby. So we are so performance oriented in every aspect. This is horrible. We are wearing our smartwatches because we are so bad.
Layci Nelson (13:44.364)
yeah.
Layci Nelson (13:49.293)
Yes.
Yep.
Layci Nelson (13:57.038)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (14:02.936)
Yep.
We want the data, yes, to tell me how good I am at moving, yes.
Suhein (14:10.42)
Everything has to be measured. How many times did I curse today? Has to be measured. So that's that. My daughter went to study abroad in Brazil and she came back and she was just like.
Layci Nelson (14:27.854)
you
Suhein (14:28.628)
It's like, no one asks what you do.
Suhein (14:35.832)
It's not a question that comes up in small talk. And she's like, it was so hard because she at that point had already built up a business like my college student daughter had already been an entrepreneur and become famous on her own rights. She did her TED talk when she was in college, like she was already on that level. Okay. So she had gone abroad and yet came back and she was like, totally different mindset.
Layci Nelson (14:48.309)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (14:56.221)
my gosh. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (15:05.043)
And she started falling in love with the Brazilian culture. you know, da da da da. And I was like, I'm gonna have a Brazilian son-in-law for sure. I'm like, they're so gorgeous. That's okay. They'll have great, beautiful kids. Anyway.
Suhein (15:20.794)
That was a wake up call when my daughter came back and she was like, that culture is not about that. You know, and so that was, you know, a starting point. So let me just dive into my confessions. Okay, so I started my career in property management. I grew up in business because my family were immigrants. had our own businesses, restaurants.
Layci Nelson (15:35.436)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (15:42.125)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (15:45.716)
7-elevens, limousine business, newspaper routes, all at the same time, mind you. And we were a family of five and we all worked all hands on deck. So I grew up with, we work, we work, and we work. There is nothing else. We never ever had family dinner cohesively together. I used to like envy the Brady bench and I'm like.
Layci Nelson (15:50.52)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (15:58.99)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (16:08.276)
looks like. Okay, because we, you know, a 7-Eleven there's a 24-hour shift, so we never, we were, there was always someone off. Okay, that's one. So then when I became 20-21, I immediately dove into property management. Because I had so much extensive work history, I had, I got promoted so fast. I was the youngest person
Layci Nelson (16:14.306)
Right.
Layci Nelson (16:17.752)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (16:31.544)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (16:35.22)
in the company managing a staff of around 50 to 75 at any given time.
Layci Nelson (16:40.6)
Mm.
Suhein (16:42.504)
So I took on the persona back in the early, early 90s, late 80s basically, of shoulder pads, the typical 90s, tough, hardcore, seasoned veteran manager, but I wasn't. But I had to put on the facade. So I was the first one in in the morning to take credit for turning on the lights and making the coffee. it's an, like this is how subtle we were about it.
Layci Nelson (16:47.458)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Layci Nelson (16:58.964)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Layci Nelson (17:07.469)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (17:12.882)
we whoever makes the coffee gets credit. You know, kind of like that, you know, and you kind of apologize and say, yeah, sorry, if the coffee is too strong, just needed it like, you know, that's kind of our set up queueing that was I made it I made it strong because I'm in, know, first name last out. So
Layci Nelson (17:15.766)
Right.
Layci Nelson (17:25.3)
Yeah. Your virtue signaling with your coffee making. Yes. Yes. And I work so hard and I've been up since three in the morning.
Suhein (17:41.158)
You know, I'm not exaggerating when I say that I average 17 hours a day.
I am disgusted with myself that I went to work 14 days after my first daughter was born.
I am repulsed with the idea that I stayed breastfeeding for nine months while working full time. How? Go ahead, ask me how, Lacey, and I didn't know. So I was working in property management, so my office was close to my house. So I would be breastfeeding literally on the way out, 8.59.
Layci Nelson (18:05.368)
Holy moly, that was not easy.
Layci Nelson (18:17.549)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (18:26.28)
I would come back at 10.30.
Eat, breastfeed, run out, come back at 2.30, come back at 5.30, and go back to the office, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, nine months, nonstop. So the first four years I was with the corporate, with my company, Cosmos, at the time, I did not take a vacation the first three years. I did not take a day off.
Layci Nelson (18:39.537)
man.
Layci Nelson (18:43.416)
Huh.
Suhein (19:01.232)
I was the epitome of that pathetic, nonbalanced work life person, right? And there's an ancient proverb, and this is I found in many different languages, not just Circassian or Arabic, and that is as a leader, it's a leadership proverb. And that is you take care of your village, the tribe will take care of you. Okay, now hold that thought.
Layci Nelson (19:20.526)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (19:27.694)
Mmm.
Suhein (19:31.534)
you as a leader take care of your village the tribe will take care of you sounds good okay
Suhein (19:44.1)
I was that. I took care of my village so, and my maternal instinct was very strong. And I was so loving and kind and I was truly, I was a great manager that fostered loyalty and empathy. And like, I was good in that way. But where was the fallacy? My performance and my standards of abusing myself.
Layci Nelson (19:52.16)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (19:58.029)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (20:03.363)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (20:10.696)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (20:12.882)
So what I discovered was I was not taking care of myself and that concept that the tribe will take care of me is not true.
Layci Nelson (20:24.846)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (20:26.812)
At the end of the day, corporate America will take care of themselves.
and that represents our tribes. So that pattern happened again and again and again and again. So after I left that one company, which they loved me, I loved them. It wasn't like it was toxic in any way. I left because of better opportunities. Yeah, yeah. No, they actually said, if only we could clone you. And of course that was like, yes, please.
Layci Nelson (20:36.61)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (20:50.016)
Mm-hmm. I'm sure they did love you, but...
Layci Nelson (20:59.51)
Yeah, you are. That's the other part that I want the listeners to really know is like in it, you're getting all the reinforcement for the way that you're behaving from your employers. They are loving it. I'm guessing no one's telling you to slow down, take some time like you're not getting any of that. It's you're so good. You're so amazing. Keep keep. Yeah, self care. That's what is that? That's not even a word in the 90s. Maybe it was but.
Suhein (21:15.767)
no.
Suhein (21:21.044)
This was the 90s.
Suhein (21:26.952)
Yeah, no, it wasn't. you know what's crazy is that this was a Taiwanese company and our cultures were very aligned. So it was very respect oriented, no teeth, you know, show, know, total like absolute sensitivity to others. You know, if there's a meeting, you walk out facing them, you don't turn your back out, like, you know, you walk out facing all the way to the door, you know, like you do like, so
Layci Nelson (21:34.446)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (21:48.098)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (21:54.16)
Unbeknownst to me, my culture as a Circassian totally aligned with them. So when the overseas investors would come, they only allowed me, I was the only American they allowed to go golfing with them. And I hate golfing. To tour them and to take them around and whatnot is because I was so culturally attuned. But at 25 years old, I didn't know that. I didn't know that what they were appreciating in me.
Layci Nelson (22:12.696)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (22:17.73)
You're right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (22:22.556)
Anyway, so fast forward, I was headhunted a few years later to come back to California to the largest property management company in the world. At that time, it was the gorilla. They owned and operated 400,000 plus. In that circumstance of me being aggressive, AAA personality, you name it, I am it. Like I am aggressive, independent, la la la la la la, right?
Layci Nelson (22:50.135)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (22:53.736)
How in the world could I possibly have found myself in a position as a pawn between corporate America and our client? My client, who I have to give you some backstory, I am Muslim. I speak Arabic. At that time, my last name was Mustafa. Arabic sounding name, Muslim, like no questioning the fact that I am from the Middle East and I am a Muslim woman without a college degree, okay, at the time.
Layci Nelson (23:18.636)
Right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suhein (23:24.422)
Our client was a very, very, very Jewish client in Beverly Hills. They owned a bunch of properties that were all suffering because of the previous management. And they had a great lawsuit positioned against this company. The biggest company in the world now just assumed their portfolio. So the Jewish company was in a position to sue
this company, the American company, and they had valid cause for the lawsuit. My company was in the process of transitioning into computerized systems. They lost three months worth of accounting, gone, completely obliterated. They had valid cause. So I come along, they hire me as being the troubleshooter and the quicker cleaner picker-upper, right?
Layci Nelson (24:01.976)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (24:23.709)
Yeah, you're the fixer. Yeah.
Suhein (24:27.794)
I didn't know. They hired me because I was Muslim, Middle Eastern, to instigate them even more.
the first day on the job, I'm waiting to meet them. Richard, the guy that's leaving, was acting like he's dodging missiles. And I'm looking at him like, are you having an epileptic seizure? What's wrong with you? And he goes, no, I'm just waiting for the Scud missiles to fall out of the sky. And my ear rang and I'm like, nobody says Scud missile. Scud is an Israeli.
Layci Nelson (24:45.336)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (24:52.556)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (24:57.57)
Yeah.
Suhein (25:10.364)
missile and I'm like what did you just say? He goes when they find out they hired a Muslim woman to manage their properties they're gonna have a conniption fit and right then and there I knew why I was hired. They put me as a human cannonball to go in. Right then and there, right then and there I decided
Layci Nelson (25:11.341)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (25:28.833)
Ugh.
Layci Nelson (25:32.204)
Yep. Without your consent, yeah.
Suhein (25:38.576)
I was going to be the best thing they've ever seen. I was going to manage those properties like my own. It was my drop in the water of world peace. I took that on and I was it. Within three months, the owner, his lawyer, and the accountant sat me down in Beverly Hills, 43, 43, Wilshire, Brevard. It was incredible. And I thought like I was on the list, right?
Layci Nelson (25:41.453)
I love that.
Layci Nelson (25:47.47)
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (26:02.134)
Yeah
Layci Nelson (26:07.714)
Yeah.
Suhein (26:08.124)
then he literally says, Suhan, we want you to come work for us, direct. You have taken the tiger by the tail.
And that's it. And right then and there, that put me in a position that they wanted to hire me directly from the property management company. I'm driving home on the 405 freeway back to my office in Orange County. My mind is blown. I go back, I tell my supervisor, the vice president that, and he's like, yes, that's awesome. And I'm like, wait, what?
Layci Nelson (26:30.062)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (26:36.023)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (26:46.536)
Right. Right.
Suhein (26:49.224)
You don't want me here anymore? And they're like, no, I want you to go record them.
offering you the position so that we can counter sue them for corporate sabotage because that's against the contract. Holy.
What?
Layci Nelson (27:11.554)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (27:12.756)
And then I had to call my supervisor back in Seattle, who was a lawyer, real estate developer that I had worked with. And I was like, Russ, what do I do? And he goes, record your boss telling you to record them so you can see why. Lacey, do you understand what's happening here? Like I made it to the big leagues, a Muslim, Middle Eastern woman with no college degree at like, at this time, I don't know, I was like maybe 30.
Layci Nelson (27:29.058)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (27:33.739)
Yeah, yeah.
Suhein (27:42.62)
Okay, I made it. I defied all odds.
Layci Nelson (27:42.658)
Yeah, yeah.
Layci Nelson (27:47.319)
Yep.
Suhein (27:49.416)
And I was a pawn among the big boys.
Layci Nelson (27:50.808)
Yeah, absolutely. You were just a, they were gonna use you and spit you out when they were done.
Suhein (27:59.732)
And that's when I lost it. Anyway, so that in of itself is that story, right? That's when I did, I'm done. I left, started my own.
Layci Nelson (28:07.021)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (28:11.278)
was gonna say, can't leave us there, what happened?
Suhein (28:15.38)
You have to read the book.
So, but fast forward, I'm fast forwarding you. Okay, so I start my own real estate business. I start my own brokerage, Laguna Beach, yada, yada, yada. And then I do appraisals, which I love, analytics, yada, yada. Then the economy crashed. I started my own skincare product from my grandfather who was Caucasian doctor. And that was a story in of itself. We'll leave that for another episode.
Layci Nelson (28:22.048)
Yes, yes.
Suhein (28:47.068)
A year ago, I decided I wanted stable income that was not dependent on the economy. And I needed to finance more marketing for my company, the skincare company, Elosh. So I said, the easiest thing I can do is go back into property management because I can do it with my eyes closed. Because I had been there 15 years, I'm an ARM, ACOM, CPM candidate, like these are all the high level designations. So I have all the designations.
Layci Nelson (28:52.11)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (29:16.668)
I can go in, bada boom, bada bang. Me thinking America has become, you know, I want to say woke, but you know, like, I want to say like, they're more in tune with work balance. And, you know, you've evolved, Gen Z is coming to the rescue to wake everybody up, you know, and the Millennials have become emotionally more mature and yada yada, right. So I get a job as a temp, just to
Layci Nelson (29:30.73)
We've evolved. Yes, we like to think.
Yes.
Suhein (29:46.152)
get in, they hire me on the spot. And I'm hired as an assistant manager, manager and training, just to like get familiar with all the new systems and computerized apps and all of that. So I'm in, right? I am in, within a month, I am held hostage in the office by a resident who had issues, had nothing to do with me.
Layci Nelson (30:12.507)
man.
Suhein (30:13.596)
She holds me hostage for two and a half hours calling the police, trying to get the police to come in, get us out, yada, yada, Okay. That woman kept threatening me and the rest of the staff for months, threatening to take away my real estate license, da, da, da, da. And I was just like, I didn't do anything. I just came on board. It was baggage from previous of what they had done wrong. She requested a handicap ramp. They didn't install it.
Layci Nelson (30:27.671)
Ugh.
Layci Nelson (30:30.954)
my gosh.
Right, Mm-hmm.
Suhein (30:42.344)
That's a violation of ADA, yada, yada. Okay, so, but I had nothing to do with that. Another incident happened where everybody was calling me Sue and there were some vendors that were doing work. I was speaking Spanish with another vendor. This American vendor walked in and said, why are you speaking Spanish? And I'm like, well, he doesn't speak Arabic, Turkish, Circassian or French.
Layci Nelson (30:45.368)
Yep, right.
Layci Nelson (31:12.173)
Right.
Suhein (31:12.254)
So I'm gonna speak Spanish with him. And he goes, why do you speak those other language? Why do you speak Turkish? My girlfriend would hate you. And I'm like, what? What? Nobody can hate me. You can think I'm obnoxious, but you can't hate me. And I'm like, why would she think she would hate me? And goes, well, she's Armenian and you're Turkish. And I'm like.
Layci Nelson (31:23.981)
Yeah.
Suhein (31:39.006)
First of all, I didn't say I was Turkish. Second, if I was, she still couldn't hate me. And third, Armenians are cultural cousins. They're from the South Caucasus, I'm from the North Caucasus. We're cultural cousins, so no, she can't hate me.
Yet, for five days, he continued to harass me about speaking other languages and he would come in and I reported him. I wrote an incident report. I did all of these things and yet still no one was doing anything.
Layci Nelson (32:06.412)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (32:12.248)
Mmm.
Suhein (32:14.9)
The last day, name tag, like my name tag was always on, but he had never paid attention to my name tag. So we were sitting, I was trying to get permission to enter from residence for him to go in and fix the roof and stuff. And he looks at my name tag, he goes, what's that? And I'm like, what's what? And goes, what's that? Your name tag. And I'm like, it's Suhan. goes, so your name's not Sue?
no, it's Suhan. He goes, so wait, where are you from? And I said, well, I was born in Syria. He goes, no, you weren't. No, you weren't. And I'm like, yes, I was. And he stands up and he towers over me, leaning into my desk over me. And he's like, so you're Muslim?
Layci Nelson (32:53.996)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (33:07.08)
So you wanna slit my throat.
Suhein (33:11.474)
And I'm like, wait, what? It goes, you're required to kill me.
Layci Nelson (33:17.053)
my gosh.
Suhein (33:18.356)
And I'm like, well, no, actually, but if I was, you'd have to stand in line because there's a lot of other people I would want to kill. I didn't say that, but like in my mind, I'm like, get in line, buddy. And then it escalated and escalated. And then finally, I had to basically force him to leave and say, you need to leave because you cannot represent this company while you were here. With these thoughts.
Layci Nelson (33:24.462)
you
Right, right. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (33:43.692)
Yeah.
Suhein (33:47.206)
You could be offending our staff. Our staff speaks Spanish. What if they had heard you when you said what you said to me the other day? What if a resident heard you? You we have fair housing, you are non-compliance, you need to leave. Stupid me. I was protecting the company. I was protecting my tribe. I was protecting my village. No one was protecting me.
Layci Nelson (33:59.244)
Yep. Yep.
Layci Nelson (34:07.502)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (34:12.014)
Mm.
Suhein (34:13.628)
I reported it in writing to my supervisor and their supervisor. And I was livid. The very next day, they brought him back to finish work. And I was like,
Layci Nelson (34:26.508)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (34:31.134)
you. Like, how is this possible? Right then and there, I should have called HR. And I didn't. I went home for lunch, stayed home that day crying, closed the curtains, feeling small and threatened because he knew where I live. And now he thinks I'm here to kill him.
Layci Nelson (34:35.436)
Right.
Layci Nelson (34:39.437)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (34:49.058)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Suhein (34:56.72)
So how do I know he's not going to try to kill me first? Because he feels betrayed. He thought I was American. He thought I was soup.
Layci Nelson (35:00.078)
Great.
Layci Nelson (35:03.608)
He thought you tricked him. Yes.
Suhein (35:05.128)
Yes.
So then another situation happened at the same property where I basically was in the position because the manager was phasing out, she was getting promoted, I was getting groomed into the next position. So I was handling all the eviction notices. There was a woman who was getting beat up almost every single day, extreme violent domestic violence, right? I just happened to be living next door to them. My wall was on their wall.
Layci Nelson (35:30.012)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Suhein (35:37.192)
My bedroom to their bedroom, my kitchen to their kitchen. I heard every single horrible mortifying thing. I had grounds to evict them on several cases, on several reasons. And so I accelerated the eviction process. She had come into my office a couple of times. I found her a domestic shelter place. We worked out the details for her escape plan. The morning of...
Layci Nelson (35:37.614)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (36:02.446)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (36:04.776)
and I had gotten security cameras. I have video footage of him back and forth, gang members coming, trying to find him. He's a convicted felon, trying to get him, yada, yada. Like it was a very violent situation. We had the police coming all the time. They were not answering. And I kept asking her, why don't you just scream when the police are knocking on your door? Why don't you scream? And she goes, I calculated the amount of time it would take for me to scream and then to bash the door in.
Layci Nelson (36:15.651)
Yeah.
Suhein (36:34.27)
he would basically slit her throat.
Layci Nelson (36:35.564)
Mm. Yeah.
Suhein (36:39.294)
And that's when I knew this shit is real. Anyway, so the morning of, she calls me and she was supposed to, like at seven o'clock in the morning, it was worked out. She calls me at 10, 11 o'clock in the morning, talking as if everything was normal. And I knew that he was there and she was under duress. I had no choice, but...
Layci Nelson (36:42.643)
yeah.
Suhein (37:08.9)
call the police from the other line as I'm recording this conversation and he threatened her and me and he said cut the line or I will cut you both and that's when I remembered the slitting of the throat motion that she had done a few days prior anyway so I gave the keys to the police with a post-it note saying go in don't knock they know
Layci Nelson (37:23.49)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (37:38.974)
He jumped, he bashed her really badly, broke teeth and tried to kill her. Jumped from the balcony and escaped. They didn't find him.
Layci Nelson (37:48.996)
man.
Suhein (37:53.327)
And I'm the only one that knows where she went. So he started calling around to other properties under the same company, knowing that I would go work for them. So as you can see, so now I'm going back from toxic 1990s. 15, 20 years later, I come back.
idealistic thinking things have changed, things have not changed.
Layci Nelson (38:20.694)
Right, right. You didn't get backing, you needed HR, you didn't call HR, but your bosses had an accountability, they should immediately have done something, didn't happen.
Suhein (38:32.85)
Right, so what I wanted to confess here is I am accountable to me. This is my problem. I should have, could have, would have, how do know better? To escalate, to elevate. I have the right, I have the value as a human. I have the decency. I have these things that I am worth escalating this.
Layci Nelson (38:40.334)
Mm.
Suhein (39:02.772)
to higher level to protect myself first and foremost. I was not protected. And I kept telling my immediate managers like, you know, have the canine unit, you know, and I had evidence that he was hiding in the electrical rooms.
Layci Nelson (39:02.925)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (39:17.806)
Mm.
Suhein (39:19.794)
beside, know, cause when he fell, he could have hurt himself like, cause it was three stories up. So I was at risk and I was at danger and no one was there to protect me. So my reason why I wanted to be on this podcast was because
Layci Nelson (39:24.515)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (39:32.61)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (39:37.772)
Yes.
Suhein (39:41.18)
It's so easy to point the fingers at corporate America and the higher culture and whatever. However, as a leader, what's the first rule? Take responsibility, take accountability. When something goes wrong, you have to take accountability. Well, what about myself? I have to take accountability for myself first and foremost. Before I protect them, before I give the, excuse me, the oxygen to the others, to my child, to my...
Layci Nelson (39:55.682)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (40:10.465)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (40:11.57)
you know, village, I have to take it to myself. And I was not protecting myself. And I have now after this incident, just so you know, I actually did the inspection on the unit after they vacated and we changed the locks and all the glass was broken. And she had said that to me, she said, you don't understand all the glass is broken, all the windows are broken, everything. And I was like, wait, what?
Layci Nelson (40:14.83)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (40:23.768)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (40:40.722)
And it didn't register in that moment, because I couldn't visualize that. I thought maybe they're furniture or something, but not like the actual windows. Anyway, so the day that I went in there, July 16th at 1130-ish AM, I went in and I saw the glass. And the glass.
Layci Nelson (40:41.132)
Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (40:59.352)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (41:03.508)
triggered severe PTSD from my childhood of being attacked by gangs in New Jersey. And that was part of my childhood of being an immigrant, of being different. And the street gangs in New Jersey would throw bullets and bombs and Molotov cocktails into our home and try to set us on fire, killed our dogs, blew up our cars.
Layci Nelson (41:06.68)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (41:13.1)
Mmm.
Layci Nelson (41:17.41)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (41:29.204)
jeez.
Suhein (41:30.642)
You know, like, so I mean, I grew up with extreme violence. So that's the other aspect of this is that I'm attracted to toxicity and I'm attracted to chaos. That's why I love property management. You know. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (41:33.622)
Yes.
Layci Nelson (41:40.43)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (41:44.142)
I going to say, there's a lot of it there. People in a living space together, guaranteed to have chaos tornadoes everywhere. Yes.
Suhein (41:51.932)
Yes, so I had to recognize in myself that I am attracted to being the martyr, the savior. I want to
Layci Nelson (41:56.844)
Yeah.
Layci Nelson (42:01.454)
Mmm, that is a huge awakening and painful. Ugh.
Suhein (42:06.226)
Yes, that's what my book is about, Broken Leases. And that's what I wrote in the last six months was here I was trying to save, I was being maternal, I was protecting everybody, taking care of everybody. I wasn't doing it to myself. And, you know, it was dark, let me tell you, it was very dark. And that incident about a month and a half later, I was admitted into intensive outpatient program, which was supposed to be eight weeks.
Layci Nelson (42:16.055)
Yep.
Layci Nelson (42:25.614)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (42:35.918)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (42:36.666)
I crawled through six and I escaped from California to Seattle to go visit my friend in the autumn because after six weeks I had maxed out on therapy. I could not do anymore. I got in my car and I drove nonstop 19 hours to Seattle. That's how intensive this was. So again, for your audience.
Layci Nelson (42:53.816)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (43:01.944)
Yeah.
Suhein (43:04.592)
If you find yourself attracted to toxic work cultures and you find yourself in them, you know, more frequently than not, yes, that's prevalent in American work culture. However, also take it upon yourself and ask yourself, are you possibly doing a Suhanism? And that is like, this feels like home. Because that's what I grew up with. Yes.
Layci Nelson (43:09.742)
All the time, yes.
Layci Nelson (43:24.526)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right, it's familiar. Even if it's so extreme your PTSD gets triggered, it's still familiar. So we're drawn to the familiar. Our brains are wired to be drawn to the familiar.
Suhein (43:44.338)
Right. And I loved properties that had gang members and prostitutes and drug dealers and you know, you know, I love that because that's why I was the cleaner, quicker, picker-upper. I could fix the properties that were not performing. So I was evicting gangs and you know, whatever, because I knew gang culture. I knew gang language because I grew up with
Layci Nelson (43:50.606)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (43:54.19)
Yes. Yes.
Layci Nelson (44:02.006)
Right, right, right. my gosh, my gosh. Thank you for sharing. That's such a huge share. Okay, so I have one follow-up. I have a million follow-up questions, but really one key follow-up question. If a listener is saying, my gosh, I think that's me. I see myself in Suhan's story. I hear myself in her story.
The of chaos might look different, but they recognize, am always in chaos wherever I go. I'm the common denominator. Wait a minute. What is the first step to breaking the cycle? Okay.
Suhein (44:45.47)
therapy. Number one, get yourself a really good CPTSD. So it's not just PTSD, it's complex PTSD, because then it's it's long standing, it's patternized within you. So it's not just a specialist in PTSD, it has to be CPTSD. Okay, so that's number one.
Layci Nelson (44:54.093)
Okay.
complex. Yeah.
Layci Nelson (45:02.764)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (45:07.981)
Okay.
Suhein (45:12.102)
Number two, see if that pattern is outward in the rest of your life.
Layci Nelson (45:16.43)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (45:18.068)
Do you have chaos outside of work? Because that means that yes, you are definitely carrying that baggage into other facets of your life as well. And I definitely have that. Like if you look at my profile online or anything, you're gonna see like my slogan is dodging bombs, bullets and bad hair days.
Layci Nelson (45:32.504)
Mm.
Layci Nelson (45:40.334)
It's not bad.
Suhein (45:43.156)
Just another Wednesday, you know, like it is what it is. You know, but I thought it was because of my heritage being in Amazon and being, you know, from the Caucasus and we have generational trauma from, you know, being at war with Russia and the genocide and the exile and yada, yada. So I just thought, you know, that's normal. No, it's not. And it took my daughter who's a therapist to push me in the direction of therapy and say that. And then when I was in intensive outpatient
Layci Nelson (45:43.34)
Yes. Yeah, right, right. Ugh.
Layci Nelson (45:57.068)
Right.
Layci Nelson (46:02.88)
You don't have to live that way. Yeah.
Suhein (46:12.884)
program, that's when I realized, like...
Layci Nelson (46:14.029)
Mm-hmm.
Layci Nelson (46:18.488)
Mm-hmm.
Suhein (46:18.694)
I am really, really carrying a lot more than the average. And this is a dangerous cycle. It's called trauma Olympics, where you are trying to outdo everyone else in group therapy. Like, yeah, well, I, you like, you know, and then I'm like, yeah, well, you know, in the basement, this is what happened to me, you know, like, no.
Layci Nelson (46:34.712)
Mm.
The one up story. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. You thought that's bad. Let me tell you this. Yes.
Suhein (46:46.92)
So they had to moderate that and make sure that that was not happening in our group therapy sessions because of my performance. You know, I had to be the most traumatized in the whole group.
Layci Nelson (46:50.509)
Right.
Layci Nelson (46:54.25)
You want to be the best. You want to be the best at being traumatized. I'm the best trauma at trauma. Yes. my gosh.
Suhein (47:03.07)
So for the audience, please do number one, seek good quality therapy and then start journaling. Journaling is primo, primo, primo.
Layci Nelson (47:12.27)
Mmm
Layci Nelson (47:16.664)
my gosh, Suhan what? Thank you, first of all, for just being so open and raw and open to sharing like something very fresh that you still are in the process of figuring out. And if our listeners are like, I really need to connect with her. I want to learn more. I want to absorb more. Where do they go? We'll drop all the links so you can give us all your links with descriptors. We'll make sure they're in the show notes.
But where's the best, easiest place to make a connection with you?
Suhein (47:49.586)
My first name, Suhan. So it's www.suhan.com. So that's where you can find, yeah, Suhan, Suhan. Believe me, my best friend Ingrid still calls me Suhan. So the book will be available in the next couple of months as I'm finishing it up, both on Amazon and on the website.
Layci Nelson (47:51.681)
Okay.
Layci Nelson (47:59.628)
I said Suhan a minute ago. I'm sorry, Suhan.
Suhein (48:16.084)
My website also leads to my skincare company, elajnatturally.com. Yeah, that is, yeah. and I have another terrible decision that I made in licensing that I got my product in every store nationwide and how that all happened.
Layci Nelson (48:20.63)
Yeah, which is a whole nother discussion we need to have.
Layci Nelson (48:31.904)
Yeah, okay, Mary, we'll get Suhan back and we'll talk about that. But this was so good. Well, Suhan, thank you so much. Listeners, I hope you are feeling as inspired and introspective and just willingness to open yourself to a new level of vulnerability and self-awareness like I am from this talk today. So Suhan.
Suhein (48:34.996)
Yeah, so that's it.
Suhein (49:00.136)
Thank you for having such a brilliant talk show. Like this podcast is amazing. I told my daughter who's a therapist, this is the name of the podcast and she goes, wow, that's brilliant. Absolutely.
Layci Nelson (49:01.347)
Thank you.
Layci Nelson (49:10.158)
my gosh, well, thank you. Thank you, Cher, far and wide. We are here to provide a space where people can come talk about the real stuff. And you sure did that today. So thank you so much. And listeners, go find Suhan, please, please, please. And let her know that you heard her on the show and I'm sure she'd love to connect. And until next time, go manage like a leader.
Suhein (49:23.412)
Hmm.
Suhein (49:39.198)
Thank you everybody.