Embracing Challenges and Finding Purpose, feat. Terry Tucker of Motivational Check
Welcome to Confessions of a
Terrible Leader, where real leaders
share the raw truth about the
lessons they learn the hard way.
So you don't have to join our host,
Layci Nelson, founder of Trans and
Leadership Collective, and former
terrible leader on this podcast.
We invite you to step into the
confessional and get real with
the messy stories and behind the
scenes reality of leadership.
Let's get to it.
Layci: Hello listeners,
and welcome back to.
Sessions of a terrible leader.
I'm your host and former
terrible leader, Layci Nelson.
Thank you listeners for
tuning in again today.
We have a treat.
We have Terry Tucker with us today.
Terry, welcome
Terry: Layci.
Thanks for having me on.
I'm really looking forward
to talking with you.
Layci: I'm going to share a
little bit about your background,
who you are listeners.
Terry is an author, he's a speaker.
He's a former NCAA collegiate.
Player and a man that is really
good at wielding sports metaphors.
And if you've listened to our
podcast before, you know that I'm
not, so this should be entertaining.
For those of you that know that I'm
not allowed to use sporting metaphors,
because I call it things like sporting,
and I say things like sports ball.
I'm actually super
excited to have you here.
Terry, before we hit record, I
asked you what's your area of
expertise and what was your response?
Terry: If you know what my area of
expertise is, please let me know.
Layci: Right.
Terry: I really, I mean,
it's sort of the effect.
It's kind of all over the place.
I mean, a lot of it I think for me
involves being part of sports teams
as I was growing up and in college.
Yeah.
Being part of law enforcement.
Again, another kind of team concept.
Mm-hmm.
I coached girls high school
basketball when I was older.
I think teams are so important to be
part of a team, what you learn from
a team, because the biggest team game
we all play is this game of life.
Right.
You can be so successful when you
get out and get into the world.
Layci: So true.
And being coachable is applicable no
matter what you're pursuing, right?
Whether it's on a sports field or a court
or whatever, or if you're a musician
or if you wanna be a great writer.
If we don't have the capacity.
To be coached and responsive
to the coaching, we're gonna
be our own worst limitation.
Terry: Yeah, you're right.
The greats and whatever you wanna
put after the great athletes, the
great musicians, the great clergy,
the great teachers, whatever it
is, those are the people that they
don't want you to tell 'em how good
they are or where they're good at.
They wanna know their deficiencies.
Yeah.
Where can I get better?
How can I.
Right.
I wanna get better, right?
How can I get better?
And those are things that so
few people do in the world.
You know, when you tell somebody, well,
you could be better if you did this.
Most people get defensive.
Oh wait.
Mm-hmm.
No, no, no, no.
The reason that didn't
happen is X, Y, and Z.
Mm-hmm.
Why don't just say, thank you,
I appreciate the feedback.
And you can think about that.
Yeah.
Is that person true?
What they say is true?
Do I need to focus on.
No, I don't think that's true.
I think I'm really good at that day.
Just haven't seen that part of my
game or my repertoire, whatever.
It's so
Layci: Right.
Terry: I think you can't take
what everybody says, but people
you respect and people that
know what they're talking about.
Layci: Yeah,
Terry: absolutely.
Should be quiet and listen to those
people on how you can get better at
whatever it's you're doing in your life.
Layci: Absolutely.
What are the hallmarks of someone
who thinks they're coachable, but.
The evidence is not there, that
they're actually open to it.
I'm sure you see it.
The alignment isn't there.
How do you spot that early?
I'm thinking from the
perspective of a boss.
You want employees that are coachable.
You wanna bring in hires that are
open to feedback, that are open to
feed forward, to feed all the ways.
Everyone's gonna give the lip service that
they are, but what are some flags where
we can maybe spot it a little earlier?
I'm not sure about the
actual coachability here.
Terry: I think the first thing you can
do is make a suggestion or a comment of
maybe a deficiency or a way that a person
can improve and see how they respond.
Do they say something like, oh.
Interesting.
I've never thought about that.
Or I've never looked at it that way.
Or do they like so many people do?
Well, the reason I don't do that
is, and whatever excuse you wanna
give, we're great at giving excuses.
Very few people, I think take
personal responsibility mm-hmm.
For their own success
and happiness in life.
If they don't get what they
want, there's an excuse.
There's a reason nobody says, yep.
It was my fault.
I remember I had a player on my
team when I was coaching girls
high school basketball that I.
And she went home and told her
mom thinking that her mom was
gonna then intercede, right.
And call a coach and get
things taken care of.
And her mom was telling
me the story after that.
She said, I looked at it and I
said, you've got one of two options.
You can either quit and you know mm-hmm.
We don't quit in this family.
Or you can take what he says to heart.
Layci: Mm-hmm.
And
Terry: you can look at how you
can improve and get better.
Those are your decisions.
Layci: Right.
And
Terry: you have to design.
And she actually did, she
absolutely elevated her game.
Layci: Yeah.
Because
Terry: when people criticize you,
as long as they do it out of love,
out of I care about you, out of your
part of the team, not uh, 'cause
I'm trying to stick it to you.
Layci: Right.
Terry: Those are people
you should listen to.
Mm-hmm.
Especially if you're coaches.
Some coaches shouldn't be coaching, but
if you played the game, if you played
instruments or you sung in the, you've
got the knowledge and experience.
I wanna raise your gain,
Layci: right?
Terry: Do you wanna raise your gain?
And that's the first, you know, I,
I've been battling cancer for 13 years
now, and one of the first questions my
doctor asked me was, do you wanna live?
Ugh, what do you mean?
Do I wanna live?
Right?
Do you wanna live?
Because you're gonna go through hell
and I gotta know that you wanna do
this because if you don't wanna do
it, I don't wanna put you through it.
Right.
It's the same thing with a coach.
Do you wanna get better?
Yep.
Do you wanna be a better student?
Do you wanna be a better trumpet player?
Right.
The answer is no.
Great.
That's fine.
Right.
I'm not gonna waste my time as
a coach trying to get you to a
place where you don't wanna be.
Layci: Yes.
Yes.
And people need to take the pause to not
just knee jerk and say, yeah, I want it.
You need to really think it through.
It will come with a cost.
It will come with a cost.
Everything does.
Are you willing to pay it?
I think that we often don't spend enough
time when we're in the coaching seat,
helping people understand what the cost
will be before they give us a reactionary.
Yes,
Terry: yes.
It's the cost of your time.
Your commitment.
Yeah.
Your effort, your ego, the cost
of the disappointment of not
putting in that time, that effort.
Mm-hmm.
Layci: Things like
Terry: that.
You're gonna have a cost either way.
Layci: Oh yeah.
There's a cost for everything.
Exactly.
Terry: So do you want the
cost to be something positive
where you benefit from it?
Or do you want the cost of regret?
Ugh, I wish I would've done that.
Layci: Right.
So how many years have you been coaching?
Terry: Well, some, my
players would say too many.
Um, I don't coach basketball anymore
because of my cancer diagnosis, but I
was a high school basketball coach for
about five years coaching a girls team.
Layci: Okay.
And tell me about, what I'm
trying to do is paint a collective
picture of your experience.
How many years have you been
impacting leading a team of any kind?
Terry: I would say my entire life.
Right.
I, I've done that whether it was
playing sports when we were growing
up and then playing in college.
I coached kind of rec league
ball when I first got into
business and stuff like that.
Things on the weekend and
nights and stuff like that.
So I had a lot of experience.
As you and I were talking before
the show, I have two brothers.
Yeah.
And we were all college athletes.
One of my brothers played professional
basketball, and when my wife
and I had our daughter, it was
like, I don't have any sisters.
I have no idea.
How to raise a girl.
Right?
Right.
And then to coach girls high school
basketball was, you might as well
drop me into the jungle somewhere.
That was like, I am
totally outta my element.
Layci: Yeah.
Terry: I have no idea what's going on.
I give you a quick story.
We were playing a game and I
pointed to one of the girls on the
bench and I said, go in for so and
so and she shakes her head Yes.
And I turn around, I'm watching
the game, what I need to do outta
the corner of my eye, I can see the
score table and there's nobody there.
So I turned back around
her and point to her again.
I said, go in for so-and-so.
Yeah.
She, you know, shakes her head.
Yes.
And again, I go back to watching
the game outta the corner of my eye.
I can see the scores table, nobody there.
And I turn back to her again and I'm like,
get in the game for so-and-so, and Layci.
Now she's shaking me off like a
big league pitcher, you know, like,
yeah, no, I don't like that sign.
No, no.
I'm like, what?
Yeah, you don't wanna play.
You don't wanna go into the game.
So I bring her to me and I'm like,
oh my God, are we gonna have a
counseling session in the middle
of a high school basketball game?
I'm like, look, I need you in the game.
Why don't you wanna go in the game?
All of a sudden the tears start.
Mm-hmm.
Down the cheeks.
And she's like, coach, I
don't wanna go in the game.
I'm like, well, first of all, there's
no uniform wearers on this team.
Mm-hmm.
If you come out every day,
you work hard to make yourself
and your teammates better.
You just don't get to sit on
the bench and wear a uniform.
Why don't you wanna go?
She said, because my friends are in the.
Stands and if I make a mistake,
they're gonna laugh at me.
And I said, well, what about your
commitment to your teammates?
Like I said, you come out here
every day, work hard in practice.
What about your commitment to them?
I need you in the game.
I know you might make a mistake.
That's okay.
You gimme your best effort.
That's all I care about.
I finally talked her
into going into the game.
And as a guy, oh my God, you could
be the worst person sitting on
the end of the bench, have all
kinds of splinters in your butt.
And if a coach said, get in the
game, there was no question you
were going, you're gonna go.
Layci: Yeah.
Terry: And I'm not saying
girls aren't competitive,
they're incredibly competitive.
Layci: Yes, we are.
Terry: Girls play sports
for a different reason.
It's the comradery, it's the relationships
that they develop with their teammates.
Guys don't play sports for that reason.
Layci: Mm.
So you had to adapt your coaching
style to their main driver.
Big time.
Yes.
So for listeners that are,
they're like, you know what?
I think in my own journey, in my own,
maybe it's not even career, maybe it's
they work for a paycheck, but they're
really passionate about this thing they
wanna coach in, which is absolutely great.
How do you make that transition from
being a player to being a coach?
What does the road look like?
Because not all players are
gonna make great coaches.
Terry: Correct.
As a matter of fact, the best coaches
are usually not the best players.
Layci: Ooh, tell me about it.
Yeah.
Tell me how this works.
Terry: The all time winningest
basketball coach in men's college
history is a guy by the name of Mike
Zeki, coached at Duke, coached in Army.
As a matter of fact, he recruited
me to go play at West Point.
Layci: Okay.
Terry: When I was in high school, he was
a guard on the West Point basketball team.
He played basketball at West Point.
His coach was a man by the name
of Bobby Knight who coached
at the University of Indiana.
Layci: Okay.
I know who Bobby
Terry: Knight is.
You
Layci: know Bobby Knight.
That means that that's a big deal.
Terry: It was a big deal.
So Bobby Knight started his coaching
career at West Point and then went
to the University of, okay, win all
kinds of national championships.
He used to say that Zeke's role
was to distribute the ball to
the people that could shoot.
Layci: Yes.
As
Terry: a matter of fact, he said, if
you shoot, I'll take out of the game.
And Gino Orma, who is the basketball
coach in the University of
Connecticut, the women's coach.
Very successful.
One of the greatest programs in
college, he talks about, I treat my
players fairly but not equitably.
Mm.
And what he means by that is if you're
a great ball handler but a terrible
shooter, I don't want you shooting.
Layci: Right.
Right.
So Coach K
Terry: goes on, not a great
college basketball player.
But a tremendous coach at Army and then
all over the number of years he's coached
at Duke and retired a couple years ago.
And so I think you gotta have a
passion for what you do, right?
I think you hear a lot of commencement
speakers talk about follow your passion.
I'm gonna tell you not to follow your
passion, 'cause passion is an emotion.
I will tell you not to
follow your passion.
But I'll tell you to bring
it with you wherever you go.
Mm.
I would tell you to follow your purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that's
different than your passion.
Yeah.
Find your purpose and then be
passionate about that purpose.
What do you love to do?
I love basketball.
Okay.
Now you need to be a student of the game.
And I think great leaders
are also servant leaders.
Yes, I need to learn.
I need to understand if you
have that, whatever that is.
I firmly believe a very strong faith
in God, but we don't have to talk
about that, but I firmly believe
that we're all here with a purpose.
Reason.
Yes.
Figure out that reason is, that'll
be the reason you wanna get up in the
morning and go do whatever it's, yeah.
Maybe work in an office.
Yeah.
Maybe you coach whatever it ends
up being, but find that purpose
in your life and then live it.
And oh my God, your life is
gonna be so great if you do that.
Layci: So Rich.
Yes.
So when we're working with leaders,
training leaders, one of the things that
we often walk them through is to get
to what exactly you're talking about,
is understanding their sense of purpose
and looking for patterns in their life.
'cause there's a little breadcrumb trail.
You just have to learn how to see it.
Understanding how to look for
those patterns in your life
from the time you're a child.
It starts to surface and become evident.
And then once you can start to see, I
have always been drawn to this higher
calling or this higher, something
that's typically bigger than yourself.
And typically about, doesn't
always have to be about people.
Sometimes it's about art, which
everything impacts people, right?
Maybe it's having an eye for beauty
in the world and seeing things
differently than other people do.
Maybe it's a huge compassion for animals.
Maybe it's whatever, but what is
that higher thread in your life?
And asking those deeper level questions
around it, not just stopping at
what are you passionate, you know?
Yeah, I really liked animals.
Okay, why?
Or, I've always really hated bullies.
Why?
Digging into like at least five rounds
of asking why, getting under those
layers, and we start to surface that.
And then once you got your hands
around that, that's exactly right.
You can then take that and anything
you do in your life can then become a
vehicle to be able to live out that,
whether it's at work, whether it's
coaching, whether it's volunteering
at your kid's school, whatever you're
doing that just comes with you.
I think and tell me if
you agree with this.
I think that in my experience working
with people, coaches, how to coach
people well, to have people skills in
that coaching arena, you can only take
someone as deep as you've been yourself.
Terry: There's a thing, and I
may mess it up a little bit.
The tree that grows to
heaven has its roots in hell.
Layci: Mm.
Unpack that for me.
What does that mean to you?
Terry: Lemme tell you a story
that would illustrate better.
2003.
There's a International entrepreneur
of the year by the name of Ed.
He talks about the four types of people
in the world, and the first group he
talks about are the unmotivated, and
he said, those are the people that
just kind of muddle through life.
They never look for their
purpose, they never find it.
They're always griping.
There's always drama around them.
And he said, that's the vast majority of
people that you'll encounter in your life.
The second group he talks about are the
motivated, and he said that's kind of
a carrot and stick approach to life.
But it works for a lot of people to
have a very happy and successful life.
Layci: Yep.
Terry: The third group he talks
about are the inspirational people.
The word inspiration coming
from two words in spirit.
So if you're an inspirational person,
you move people with your energy.
And then the last group he talks
about are the aspirational people,
where people aspire to be like you.
And sometimes.
Show of hands, how many
people are unmotivated?
Nobody raises their oh
no's gonna say, says,
if you believe, the vast majority
of people are, if its roots in
hell, by going through adversity,
going through difficult times.
Nobody grows when they're comfortable.
Layci: Yes.
If you're not
Terry: growing, you're dying.
Layci: Yes.
Terry: Those hard, those difficult
experiences, you may have grown
up in an alcoholic father, family
who beat the heck outta yourself.
It's not your fault, but
it is your responsibility.
It's your responsibility to understand
the lesson you're supposed to learn.
I don't think any of
us suffers in a vacuum.
Mm-hmm.
There's a reason I always say people
need to find meaning in their misery.
A message in that misery.
What's life trying to teach you?
Mm-hmm.
And if the more misery you go
through, the higher that tree can
grow until hopefully you're that
aspirational person where people aspire.
Mm-hmm.
To be like you.
Layci: I like that.
And I think also, I like the growth
part because it's not thinking
about it as a living organism.
It's not gonna happen
without intentionality.
You're not gonna grow a big, strong,
healthy tree unless it's planted
in the right spot, unless you're
giving it water, unless you're
pruning it on a regular basis.
There's things required for that
tree to thrive, even in the forest
when human hands aren't involved.
It needs to be in the right location
and have the right variables
at play, but understanding that
has to happen with intention.
So I think of that like people have been
through horribly traumatic things in
life, and yes, I also share the belief
that no one necessarily deserves that,
or they're not at fault for what other
people have done in their life, that
they have been the recipients of people.
Terrible, hurtful actions, and
they're the child, they're innocent.
They're not even playing a role in
it with any sort of power, looking
at that, you can't just passively be
hoping some good is gonna come from it.
Like you said, learning that lesson,
what is it trying to teach me?
Where's the beauty in the ashes?
Where can I tend to, how can
I tend to it so it can grow
into this big, beautiful tree?
And resilience is born in adversity.
I don't think you can be a
resilient person without adversity
because how are you resilient
if you've never had adversity?
So what are you resilient to?
You've never tested it.
You think you might be,
but has it been tested?
I'm weaving thoughts here
as I'm talking to you.
Thank you for your patience.
Terry: It's so true.
I've learned a lot of things
from cancer and true, I bet.
Big things that I've learned.
It's just what you were saying.
I don't think you truly know yourself.
Until you've been tested by some form
of adversity in your life, whatever
that looks like, doesn't have to
be cancer or anything like that.
Right?
And the second thing that I've
learned is that, and this is gonna
sound probably kind of weird, cancer
has made me a better human being.
Mm.
I mean, if I had the opportunity to
go back, and I've been asked this
question, if you could go back in time
and not have cancer, would you do it?
And Layci, I, I don't think I would.
Mm.
I'm sitting here.
You can't tell this.
I'm in a wheelchair.
I don't have a left leg.
My left leg has been amputated.
Okay?
Because of my cancer, I
have tumors in my lungs.
As bad as that's been.
Layci: Yeah.
That has
Terry: made me a better human being.
Yeah.
And I wouldn't trade that for the world.
Layci: Yeah.
I have had a lot of people in my
life that have had battles with
cancer, and some have come out
the other side and some haven't.
My question is, what's the differentiator
between those that say, this is gonna
make me a better person, and those were.
I think for the outside, we think,
oh, someone goes through that
experience and they have your response.
The response of, I'm going to
find the gift in this somewhere.
I'm gonna dig through the crap
and I'm gonna find the gift, and
I'm gonna come out with a better,
healthier, more connected, more
loving persona on the other side.
That is not how it always ends for people.
That isn't the default.
What is the difference?
I mean, I know you can only speak to
your own experience, but I'm guessing
you probably know others who are
battling or have battled cancer.
What's the difference
between those people?
That it just destroys them
emotionally, spiritually, and
those that go, okay, game on.
Let's take living to the highest level.
Terry: I guess in a
word, I'll say mindset.
Mm.
2012 when I was diagnosed, I was
told I'd be dead in two years.
Mm.
And I thought, well, okay,
you gave me a death sentence.
Maybe I can try to turn that death
sentence into a life sentence.
I certainly never expected to be here.
13 years later.
Doctors, and this is gonna sound kind
of funny, doctors are kinda like Vegas.
They handicap you based on your age,
your overall health status, and the stage
that your cancer is, okay, you're gonna
work two years, five years, 10, whatever.
Layci: Right?
Terry: But what doctors
dunno is that, you know what?
I wanna see my daughter
graduate from high school.
I wanna see my daughter walk across
the stage, you know, at the Air Force
Academy and shake hands with the
president of the United States on
the day she graduates from college.
I wanna walk my daughter down the aisle.
I wanna play with my grandkids.
Layci: Yeah.
Terry: Those things that you have to look
forward to are really what propels you.
Mm-hmm.
And it really is your mindset.
Your mind controls your body.
And I have seen people, and this scares
the heck outta me, where doctors will say,
okay, Bob, you'll be dead in two years.
And literally on the date, the anniversary
that the doctor said that two years later.
Those people die.
Mm.
I want my life to be shaped
by the decisions that I made.
Mm-hmm.
Not by the ones I didn't make, or
that somebody else made for me.
Mm.
So I wanna be involved in my healthcare.
My wife tells a story much better than I
do, she said, when I was first diagnosed.
So the oncologist pulled her out of the
room and said, I've gotta tell him that
he's probably gonna be dead in two years.
Mm.
How's he gonna handle that?
And my wife said, I just looked
at her and laughed and said,
go ahead and tell him that.
See if your prediction comes true.
Right?
It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah.
It was a challenge.
It all in your head.
Yeah.
It all starts in your head.
Yeah.
If you believe you're gonna die in two
years, you're gonna die in two years if
you believe that there's something bigger.
And I do.
I think that my reason for being
here is much bigger, as you said.
Mm-hmm.
Is much bigger than me.
And that that purpose is to show my God's
goodness caring, love, mercy, grace.
I'm.
And it's so funny when I did, I got
all kinds of brush back from people.
Layci: Yeah.
Terry: Don't you think
that's kind of defeatist?
Layci: I'm like,
Terry: well, the last time I
checked, I think we're all gonna die.
Don't think anybody's working
on a cure for life right now.
Right, right.
Every one of us is gonna die, but not
every one of us is gonna truly live.
And I'll end with this.
There's a Native American
Blackfoot proverb that I heard
years ago, and it goes like this.
When you were born, you cried.
And the world rejoiced.
Live your life in such a way so that when
you die, the world cries and you rejoice.
Layci: That's what, that's beautiful.
That's beautiful.
Terry, you didn't gain all this wisdom in
your life without making some mistakes.
I'm pretty sure that there's been
some hard lessons learned, some areas
of looking back that you go, you
know, yep, I'd take cancer again.
But if I could do this over, I maybe
wouldn't have done it the same way.
So I'm gonna invite you to step into
the confessional and share with us.
What is a leadership mistake?
Misstep learning opportunity, however
you wanna frame it in your own life
that you look back on and you're
like, Ooh, this was a pretty big one.
And then how did it shape
the way you lead today?
Terry: That's a great question.
I guess I'll tell one from a personal side
and I'll tell one from a coaching side.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'll start with the coaching one.
In my life, I've been captains of
basketball teams and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
And that's usually, okay, you're the
senior, you're gonna be a captain.
That doesn't make you
necessarily a leader.
Mm-hmm.
And that's how I used to do it
when I first started as a coach.
And I think it was absolutely the wrong
way to pick a leader, to pick a captain.
And I found this, it's 10 questions.
I looked for it before we jumped on here
and I couldn't find it, but it was 10
questions that you give to each member
of the team and questions like, if you
had a problem with another teammate,
which player would you go talk to?
And there are three spaces.
Layci: And then great question.
Terry: Who on the team is best at holding
the rest of the players accountable?
Mm-hmm.
First, second, and third.
And you take all these questions
and if whoever's in the first slot,
in each question gets three points,
the second spot, two points, one
point, and at the end you add it up.
And a lot of times it was juniors
or even sophomores that the team
looked at as the leaders of the team.
And I would make love that acceptance.
And I think as that leadership goes,
you've gotta develop that culture.
If you have good leadership and
you know what your values are,
that leads to a good culture.
Yeah.
The other one was with our daughter.
I was a SWAT hostage negotiator.
I had all this training about how human
beings communicate with each other.
Layci: Yeah.
Terry: I knew all this stuff.
And then I would go home and when our
daughter was three, you know, she'd
look at me and take a glass of milk.
Just dump it on the floor.
Mm-hmm.
And I would go in just total dad mode
and just, you know, what did you do that?
And I'm like, oh my God.
You have all this training and experience.
Yeah.
And you're totally reverting to emotion.
Right.
And really your 3-year-old daughter
who's just trying to push your buttons.
Right.
Right.
You have to make those mistakes in life
and say, yeah, I really screwed that up.
Mm-hmm.
And you do it and you can decide,
did I learn something from that,
or Yeah, I'd do it again if I
had to do it and stuff like that.
Wish.
I drove our daughter pretty hard.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I think she will tell you
she's a better person because of it.
I'm not so sure I was always in the
right when I did the things I did.
Layci: Mm.
Yeah.
That's a very vulnerable share.
Thank you for that.
Terry: Sure.
Layci: Thank you, Terry.
You're a fascinating guy.
I mean, I think I could talk
to you for four more hours.
If you have the time, and we'd love to
have you back and dig into some more
of this and your journey with your
battle of cancer and your SWAT history.
I mean, I've 14 more questions.
Thank you for opening up today for
being willing to be vulnerable and share
so many intimate details of what is
going on and has happened in your life.
I really appreciate that.
I'm sure our listeners enjoyed me
following along sports analogies
and your sports stories are great.
I always wish I was better at it.
There's an area I need to
get better at it because.
They're so relatable for
most of the population.
So everybody, yeah.
Terry: Yeah.
And that's just it.
You gotta read the room, you
gotta play to your audience.
I spent eight years in trumpet 1 0 1, so
you know, I understand how that works.
You know, I was the only person
who the band director said, okay.
In the spring concert, just
pretend like you're playing.
Oh my gosh.
It's.
Layci: Oh, okay.
True story.
I'm gonna tell you this
'cause you'll appreciate it.
I played basketball in middle school.
Terry: Okay.
Layci: And I played on a few teams,
dabbled, but I played a a U in
middle school and then I also, I just
decided I'm gonna get good at it.
So I dedicated my summer.
I didn't have a coach, it was just myself.
And then to go down to the local court
and just play and I was just gonna play.
I was gonna play with people
and I thought, okay, I'm working
this hard, like it must pay off.
Well then that next year.
It was a a u so you made the team, right?
Like it wasn't really like competitive
as far as making the team, or I wouldn't
have made it, but I'm playing a a u and
my coach gently pulls me aside and says,
honey, do you, we are practicing lamps.
Do you need glasses?
And at that point I didn't.
Okay.
I didn't need glasses.
Thank you.
Childbearing.
My eyes went after I had
kids, but the coach was like,
do you, do you need glasses?
I was like, I, no, I don't.
I don't need glasses.
I was that bad, Terry, that the coach,
the only thing after trying so many
things, I mean, they really tried with
me, but I did not, I was, I was Your
version of, just pretend you're playing.
It takes us All right.
It does.
I, I mean,
Terry: yeah, exactly.
I mean, you learned it just
a different way, so, yeah.
Layci: Oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
I was so bad.
Yeah, but I played anyway, and
then I'd foul out every game.
'cause all I would do is just be
the muscle out there and, but you
Terry: need the enforcers.
That's right.
Layci: That was, I was the one
that just, you know, they stuck
me on people and that was it.
I probably should have played like rugby
or roller derby, but yeah, so thank you.
Thank you so much, Terry.
You're awesome.
I really appreciate it
talking to you today.
Where can people find you if
they wanna follow along on your
journey and your inspiration, and
you just have so much to share?
Terry: Layci, thanks for having me on.
I really enjoyed this as well.
I have a website, a blog
called Motivational Check,
so go to motivational check.
You can look at all kinds of
things there and you can also leave
me a message and I love hearing
from people, so please reach out.
Layci: Excellent.
Okay, well we'll drop that link in the
show notes and listeners go find Terry.
I'm looking forward to hearing more
and learning more, and I'm sure this
is the first of many conversations.
I hope.
Thank Terry so much for your time today.
Thank you.
And you know the drill listeners.
Until next time, go manage like a leader.
Thanks for listening to
Confessions of a Terrible Leader.
If you're feeling brave and have your
own terrible leader story that you'd
like to share, head over to Transcend
leadership collective.com/podcast
to fill out a guest application.
We'd love to hear from you.
Confessions of a Terrible Leader is
hosted by Layci Nelson and produced and
edited by Fixation Point Productions.
Music is by Leaf Olson and
Mary Scap from the band.
The number of months.
Confessions of a Terrible Leader is
a free leadership resource offered
by Transcend Leadership Collective.
If you are ready to refuse the
limits of average leadership and
join the leadership revolution, visit
transcend leadership collective.com
to check out our offerings for engaging
workshops, strategic planning, and more.
Thank you so much for listening.
Don't forget to like, subscribe,
and leave us a review, and until
next time, go manage like a leader.