S3, Ep. 14: Leading The Way in Healing Medical Trauma, feat. Parijat Deshpande, founder of Ruvelle

Layci (00:01.353)
Hello listeners and welcome back to Confessions of a Terrible Leader. I'm your host and former terrible leader, Lacey Nelson. I am so excited to welcome Parijat Deshpande to the show today. Parijat, thank you for being here.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (00:20.536)
Thank you so much for having me, Lacey. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while.

Layci (00:22.441)
You

fantastic. Okay. I am going to do my best to inform our listeners about what you do and, and what your organization does. And I am the reason that I'm like, I had to think this through. I realized just as I'm talking now, I'm like, you're kind of in like the blue ocean space. Like, are there a whole lot of people out there doing what you do? I did, I did not think there probably was cause as soon as I heard about it and now listeners, you're like, just say it already. What does she do? you.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (00:47.124)
Nope.

Layci (00:55.699)
are likely gonna go, wow, where was this if you are past this point in your life when I needed it, or how the heck do find this lady help? So gonna be a great conversation because what Parijat does, what her organization does is you help leaders that have experienced trauma or harm in the medical system.

And they're now dealing and grappling with the physical and mental health effects of what happens when the medical institution, we have an experience with healthcare, doesn't turn out how we thought it was going to or hoped it to, hoped that it would, lets us down. We come out with some injury, whether mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, physical health on the other side, a lot of times all of it. And then how do we...

pick up the pieces and remain intact and come through this on the other side. That is what you specialize in. Did I get it right? First of all, let's make sure I said it correctly. Okay.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (02:01.026)
Yeah, that absolutely, yes.

Layci (02:05.499)
Okay, I have so many, so many questions. First of all, how did you get here? And how did you go, there's a business to build around this and people need this help. Just tell me all the things, go for it. How did you get where you're at?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (02:15.394)
You

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (02:24.716)
Yeah, Well, how far back do we go? So I think the pinnacle kind of moment was after grad school. So I was trained in clinical psychology originally. And I was working as a child and family therapist and was teaching up at UC Berkeley, go Bears. And I was teaching a developmental psychology class for upper division.

Layci (02:29.651)
right?

Layci (02:47.241)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (02:54.168)
psychology majors, and I loved it. I mean, this is like, this is where I belong. I'm thrilled. The students are wonderful. Everything's going great. And we get to the point of teaching about prematurity. And so we're talking about the developmental impacts of being born early. And there's an element in the textbook. I can still picture where on the page it was where they're talking about babies that are born under two pounds and the developmental challenges that babies have.

Layci (03:07.219)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (03:15.187)
Mmm.

Layci (03:21.417)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (03:21.934)
after when they're born that small or that early or both. And I'm sitting there and I'm teaching it based on the theories and all the information that I learned. And then I want to say about a year and a half, maybe two years after that, I became the parent of one of those children. And yeah, and I went, what was I teaching exactly? What, no, no, no, no, that class needs to change completely.

Layci (03:31.368)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (03:38.841)
wow, okay, reality.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (03:51.086)
you know, the, the work that I do now really is inspired entirely by what I'm calling life university. mean, I had all this training, all this education professionally, but then I went through infertility. went through losses. went through a very high risk pregnancy. went through an extremely preterm delivery. My son was born at 24 weeks and five days. We went through a lengthy NICU stay. And on the flip side of that, aside from the physical.

Layci (03:58.327)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (04:12.627)
Wow.

Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (04:20.748)
challenges that I had to deal with both from the pregnancy and the delivery itself, but also the medical trauma that was my reality, right? Nobody wants to deliver in their second trimester. That is not something we want for anyone to be in the NICU for that long. So I left with that, but also how much it affected who I am as a person. mean, my whole identity just shattered afterwards.

Layci (04:29.161)
Mmm. No.

Layci (04:45.353)
Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (04:49.174)
I went from somebody who was so on top of my career. I was, you know, rising. I was doing all the things, like checking off boxes so early on in my career and like, look at me go. And then this happened and it all just like, wars of the world crumbled. It's like, was, I am legend gone, you know? Like that is the visual of what I felt like in my life. And yet, and yet, you know, the reason the work, I started doing this work is because when I was on,

Layci (04:58.75)
Yeah.

Layci (05:05.485)
Wow. huh. Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (05:18.638)
Hospital bedrest. I was admitted to the hospital at 22 weeks and four days. I was already three centimeters dilated. I'd already developed five complications up until this point. I did not know three more were coming in the next few days. And my doctors, who were wonderful, let me say, Wonderful, wonderful team. They were preparing me to lose this baby. And I said, but can I try something?

Layci (05:25.694)
man.

Layci (05:30.964)
man.

Layci (05:36.105)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (05:41.479)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (05:45.77)
on my own in addition to all the medical things, just throw it all at me. I don't even care how experimental it is. I'll take it. But can I try something? Because I have a feeling there's something going on in my body that's perpetuating these contractions that you can see on the monitors. Who's going to say no to me in a situation like that? So they're like, Pat, Pat, sure, absolutely, whatever you need. And what I started doing was actually like instinctive somatic work. I didn't have the language for it yet.

Layci (06:00.445)
Mm -hmm. Right. Right. Yeah.

Layci (06:13.739)
Mm. Right.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (06:16.066)
but I was able to do some of that work to stop the contractions. You could see it on the monitor. It was quantitatively measured. And when I stopped doing that work, the contractions picked right back up. And so I remember the couple of before he was born, I just said, if you and I survive this, I have to come back and teach people how to do this. This can't be magic. This can't be just me. So he was born. We spent time in the NICU.

Layci (06:23.069)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (06:27.09)
Wow.

Layci (06:39.945)
Right.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (06:44.684)
He and I were on lockdown for two and a half years, so nothing really happened. It was just a seed that was still kind of hanging out in the dirt, right? And once life started getting a little bit simpler, I went back to that promise I made to him and I said, is there something here? Now, I, being science -minded, did not wanna just go in and start teaching people to do something just because I lived through it. I wanted proof that it was real. So I dove into the research just gently to go,

Layci (06:50.215)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (07:00.008)
Hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (07:13.87)
this something? I don't know. Is there something here? Turns out there's 70 years of research that backs up what just happened. Yeah. So I went, okay, well, that's a great idea to lean off of. I know. I know. I know. I know. Exactly.

Layci (07:16.082)
Yes.

Layci (07:21.619)
Wait, my gosh.

Layci (07:28.241)
Well, how come we haven't heard? I've had two children. Why have I not heard? Okay. Okay.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (07:36.686)
So I started working gently one -on -one with clients, kind of one -off sessions first, and then I started seeing, wait, there's something more here. So I built out a program that I still have now called Path to Baby, where I'm working with clients from preconception through four weeks after homecoming with the intention of helping them beat medical odds. Because my medical team told me, you have 72 hours, we got 15 days because of what I was able to do. And if I could do that,

Layci (08:00.157)
Yeah. my, that's incredible. Yeah. and every hour counts when they're that little. Yes.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (08:05.13)
I don't think I have any superpowers. I think anyone can do that. Exactly. Exactly. So I started seeing the same results with my private clients. They were all staying pregnant longer than their medical team thought was possible. So I went, okay, more people need to know about this. How is this not common information?

Layci (08:25.267)
Right.

Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (08:28.884)
Same reaction that you had, right? So then I wrote my book, Pregnancy Brain. I thought, okay, that's at least something we can hand out all over the world. Everyone can have access to it. And even that started building momentum and we're getting so many clients now not just in pregnancy, but now afterwards, after fertility trauma, after birth trauma, after the NICU. And they're not just looking for how do get pregnant next, which is primarily the bulk of our clientele, but it's also now, wait, this is affecting my work.

Layci (08:37.33)
Yeah.

Layci (08:48.615)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (08:58.668)
This is affecting my career. This is affecting my identity. This is affecting me in my world. Help. And so we grew and grew and grew until just a few months ago, we rebranded because I hit a ceiling and I went, I can't help as many people as I want in this capacity. I want to get bigger. I want to have more of a reach to help more people. And that's where Rueval was born. It's essentially taking all the work I've done with private clients.

Layci (08:58.792)
Yeah.

Layci (09:04.797)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (09:19.496)
Yeah.

Layci (09:25.171)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (09:26.222)
productizing it so that it's accessible to people wherever they are on their journey.

Layci (09:31.603)
Wow, okay. This one, all the moms and maybe some of the dads are probably really, really starting to go back into their own stories. I know immediately I'm starting to think through my own experience. I had a traumatic birth with my first one and afterwards also, and it completely rocked my world. I loved your description of like, I am legend, like before, after, like.

I definitely had that experience. How is this? Because in my mind, up until honestly this conversation right now, just categorized it as like I had postpartum, which I did, but it feels like there's more to it than just postpartum depression going on. How is it?

Do we just misunderstand postpartum depression? Are we just slapping one label that doesn't get at the nuance of the different layers of what's happening? In your expertise, break that down for me.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (10:41.742)
I do believe that, I do think we're getting it wrong. I think we're missing a lot of it. I think we're doing a great job of finally talking about it. I think there's far more resources now than there were even 10, 15 years ago. Certainly a generation prior, that was just not even a thing. Like be happy, baby's here, move on. Which I think there's still some of that now, right? You survive, baby looks fine, be okay. Which is so minimizing for the experience of it.

Layci (10:48.839)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (10:53.502)
Mm -hmm.

Yep.

Yeah.

Layci (11:03.419)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (11:09.624)
But I do believe what we're missing in talking about postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum rage, postpartum PTSD, is that the roots of that start before postpartum. And I think if we look back and we go, what happened in pregnancy, not necessarily the experience of it, but the somatic experience of it, what changed in your nervous system, endocrine system, and immune systems that set the stage for this? And truthfully, if we really,

Layci (11:16.807)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (11:22.002)
Mmm.

Layci (11:30.055)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (11:34.163)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (11:39.576)
commit to this, I think we look way before pregnancy. We look at what's happening when you're maybe trying to get pregnant or probably even before that. And you go, what happened? Where is the threat? I when we talk about trauma -informed care, that's what we mean. It's we don't look at one slice and say, what is the problem here? How do we fix it? We go, what happened before that to help make these symptoms make sense?

Layci (11:55.913)
Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (12:06.111)
And when we can look at it longitudinally like that, I think we get a completely different answer of what's going on. That doesn't mean there's no support or anything like that. It means the support actually that you need is a little bit different than what we're pushing as necessary right now.

Layci (12:06.168)
my gosh. Yeah.

Layci (12:19.356)
Yes!

Layci (12:23.177)
Yes, yes, my oldest is 14. So he was my rough birth, rough, all the roughs. I will spare all the details, but it was tough for both of us. And I am just thinking back on like my poor 31 year old self who had her world completely rocked and did not know what the heck was going on.

felt all the things that you're talking about. If you were speaking to her, what, because when we say you trace the thread back and you go, okay, what's going on even before? How would that impact the way that, what would I be doing with that information or that insight to change my or impact my somatic experience during pregnancy or like bring it to life for me? What is it in?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (13:19.927)
Yeah.

Layci (13:20.937)
in practice look like.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (13:23.086)
Yeah, so this is what shows up exactly for my path to baby clients. work, typically those clients are ones who've already experienced. So they're the you after your 14 year old was born, right? They're the me after my 24 week old was born. And they go, I don't want that experience next time. And I don't wanna carry what happened with me into the next one. I have new health complications or I have new issues that I don't want to come into the next time I try to get pregnant.

Layci (13:47.239)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (13:51.638)
And so what we first have to do is we have to allow for complete and total acceptance and compassion that what happened happened. And I know a lot of people when I say that, they go, well, yeah, of course I did. Of course it was birth trauma. I know it. But think about all those moments that you question it or you kind of go, well, it wasn't that bad. Well, at least it wasn't what they went through or something, right? Right.

Layci (14:02.643)
Mmm.

Layci (14:13.125)
Mm -hmm. Right. Right. He wasn't early, like, in my, for my story. Yes. Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (14:20.98)
Exactly. And so those are all of the pieces that we have to strip away because as long as we have them floating in our heads, we won't let ourselves completely get curious and investigative almost about how it's being stored in our bodies. We will always find a way to kind of step out of that because, we're comparing, we, we, or we don't want it to be the case, which is totally real. How many times, my gosh, I fought that like, this was not my story. This was not what happened. I mean.

Layci (14:25.843)
Yeah.

Layci (14:37.064)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Layci (14:44.157)
Right, right.

Layci (14:49.673)
Right? Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (14:50.786)
He's here in the NICU, like that is what happened. So I say that without judgment, but we have to build that compassion and that acceptance very early on. And I can kind of tell before taking on a new client where somebody is in that place, that if we can't do that yet, the rest of it doesn't matter because we'll stop doing it. And I say we, because I do include myself in that.

Layci (14:58.825)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (15:07.495)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (15:11.113)
Mmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (15:15.008)
If I don't have compassion for myself, like, yes, this is what happened and this was awful and it was unfair and I didn't deserve it and insert all the emotions that come with it, I won't do the things that are necessary after that, right? So that is really where it has to begin. After that, what I love to do with my clients is we, you I think we live in a culture that talks about and prioritizes and values thought -based approaches.

Layci (15:29.001)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (15:43.069)
Yeah. Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (15:43.192)
We tell our story a lot. We tell what happened a lot. And we try to say it over and over and over again to try to almost master it, if you will, in clinical terms. We want to have it make sense and then take the charge out of it. But when you go through something that visceral, there are no amount of words that are going to get you there. It's got to be an experience that you undo. And one of the things that I think pops up, especially around birth or any kind of medical trauma,

Layci (16:02.877)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (16:12.522)
is that our bodies get frozen in a particular movement and postural pattern that wasn't able to be completed before. So for example, I think about a client of mine where she was getting ready to deliver and her medical team said, have to deliver on your back. And that we know that is not true unless there are medical complications that prevent that from being safe for both.

Layci (16:18.333)
Hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (16:41.58)
the birthing person and the baby, you don't have to. And yet, first time mom, she hasn't done this before, she's like, okay. Even though her body was trying to get her to turn. And so if you think about it from a body perspective, there's a tension that starts building, right? Her body's wanting to turn and her head and her medical team are going turn back. so when you think of it that way, after the delivery,

Layci (16:45.043)
Yeah.

Layci (16:53.299)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (16:57.779)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (17:05.022)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (17:09.868)
after she's kind of cleared from the six week postpartum check and they say, okay, carry on with your life. It's all whatever, right? Lots of asterisks about how I feel about that. But she gets to that point and a year later, two years later, she's like, why do I have back pain?

Layci (17:17.597)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (17:31.721)
Okay.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (17:32.684)
and you look at where that pain is, you look at what type of tension it is, and you start figuring out, how do you wanna actually hold your body right now? And you start noticing how people actually, if they're given the permission, how they actually wanna hold their body is telling the story of the moment when that trauma happened. You go back to that moment and you can undo what wasn't able to be done at that time.

It's so powerful, it's so powerful. And that's how we begin the work for the next pregnancy.

Layci (18:02.163)
Wow.

Layci (18:06.248)
Okay.

my gosh. Wow, I think a lot of moms right now are going, where was this? I needed this. And I'm so glad that you exist for women that are in this journey, people that are having children in this journey. I'm so thankful. what a leap to, I wanna talk a minute about your thought leadership on this because you are in this like blue ocean space.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (18:26.498)
Thank you.

Layci (18:39.305)
How are you in your own self, in your own leadership? I'm imagining you may be being met with some skepticism and you may be being met with some people in the traditional medical field that are not willing to even consider or make space. How are you state, first of all, are my assumptions true? I should start there. Okay, okay. Okay.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (19:05.281)
yes. yes, very true.

Layci (19:09.033)
And then how are you able to tap into your reserves in yourself? How do you keep moving forward with this work when it's met with resistance? Because you're breaking trail right now and that is not easy on many levels. What are you doing to be able to maintain your capacity? I mean, how are you doing this?

beyond just, well, because I believe it's so important. Let's get into the real real. Like, how are you really doing this to continue to break trail when I know there's gotta be some resistance that some days just feels like walking through concrete at best?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (19:43.629)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (19:52.61)
Yes, yes. So you mean aside from sobbing under my comforter every other day?

Layci (19:56.605)
Hahaha

love the real talk. Thank you. We're trailbreakers over here in a different way and definitely relate hard to that sentiment. Okay.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (20:04.426)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (20:08.524)
Yeah, no, it's very, very hard. I appreciate you for acknowledging that because as you know, for anyone who tries to blaze a new trail in any direction, humans don't like change. That's an evolutionary necessity. And yes, yes, it's very true. It's very true. I found, you know, there's a few things. I will say it is

Layci (20:24.081)
No! We're hardwired to hate it!

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (20:36.682)
absolutely essential for me to have my people around me. Who those people are, some of them have changed and some of them have come on board, if you will. But I give a lot of credit to my partner who puts up with all kinds of my mental shenanigans of what have I done? You know, the every other hour of I think I messed up.

Layci (20:40.007)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (20:56.198)
Yes.

Layci (21:00.241)
Yeah, yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (21:02.668)
But having a lot of supportive people who see the vision, who understand where I'm coming from, who can always remind me that, hey, this is where you're coming from, this is why you're doing this, don't forget that. I think, I really think having a bank of positive feedback is something that has been so instrumental to getting through those difficult days. I was actually looking at one just the other day.

Layci (21:10.556)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (21:20.873)
Mmm.

Layci (21:26.707)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (21:30.142)
was going through it because I was creating something, I needed a testimonial, and I just went, right, this does work. There are that many people who have benefited from this, you know? And also letting myself have the difficult days and letting myself have the permission to go, I don't have to do this. I can choose to walk away the same way that I chose to walk into this. I can choose it. And I think that takes a lot of the pressure off because sometimes it feels very heavy to carry it.

Layci (21:36.413)
Yes. Yes.

Layci (21:48.755)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (21:56.221)
Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (21:59.774)
and to be constantly convincing people or trying to talk to people and get them to see things differently. so podcasts like this are so good for my soul to be able to talk to people who get it, you know? And I think in doing that for this long, I've been able to find the people who are open to this type of conversation, the people who are willing to accept, there are gaps. Let's start there. There are gaps. Let's acknowledge that.

Layci (21:59.975)
Yeah.

Layci (22:13.851)
Yeah, yeah.

Layci (22:26.803)
Yep. Yep.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (22:29.382)
and you can't fill them with traditional solutions anymore. Like we've tried this and it's not enough. Yeah, they either, yeah, they don't work or they're not enough. And so I think I've gotten better at knowing who to talk to. So I also am very discerning about who I pitch to or what meetings I take, or, you know, it's not, I'm gonna go and try to get my book or my services or our products into every OB -GYN's office. It's going to be the ones who are already

Layci (22:34.077)
They don't work. Right.

Right.

Layci (22:49.523)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (22:58.584)
having to take a different trail themselves within the medical system are the ones who are going to be far more open to what I have to say anyway.

Layci (23:06.877)
You're learning to spot alignment faster, is what I'm hearing. And protecting your own, setting boundaries. And just some conversations you're not gonna have. And there's some clients that are not the right fit, and there's some offices that, doctors that are not the right fit, and that's okay. And that whole learning, what I'm hearing is that learning of like,

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (23:09.109)
Yeah, yes, yes, yes.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (23:15.394)
Yes.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (23:24.482)
Yeah.

Layci (23:35.613)
we're not for everyone, but who we are for, I'm getting better at seeing them faster and putting the messaging out that helps them to align and go, my gosh, yes, that's for me. Is that accurate and accurate reflection? Okay. Okay. Wow, thank you. As a fellow female entrepreneur in some spaces that traditionally...

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (23:37.314)
Mm

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (23:49.9)
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes.

Layci (24:02.963)
haven't been explored in the way that we're doing it here and working with self -regulation as a key component and a step beyond emotional intelligence and helping people understand really how to lead well and then trying to bring that into some agriculture and manufacturing spaces. Probably some similar learnings going on with where is the alignment.

and so pleasantly surprised sometimes. Isn't it fun when you get shocked of like, I had no idea. I mean, there's enough alignment. You're like, we'll see. So you have the conversation and then you're like, wow, I misjudged this one. This is awesome. And then the other times when you're like, wow, I misjudged this one. That was horrible. So.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (24:35.992)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (24:47.796)
Exactly.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (24:53.998)
Yes, healthy dose of both regularly.

Layci (24:59.022)
Yes, yes. So what do you do as a leader to maintain and like, maintain, build, keep your capacity to where it needs to be? You're doing this really hard work that is so needed, so commendable and so hard.

because it is trailbreaking, you're having to basically give a dissertation to just even catch people up to speed on what you do, how you do it, and probably answer a lot of the same questions a million times in a row and every now and then get thrown one where you're like, wow, good one, haven't heard that yet. But what are you doing to maintain and increase your own capacity to keep doing this work?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (25:26.05)
You

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (25:37.421)
Yeah.

Layci (25:49.149)
I know you said it's important to have your people around you. It's important to feed your soul, to make those connections and have those conversations. What are some things you do to also take care of your physical health? Because that so often can get pushed by the wayside. I'm guessing you're pretty aware of it considering the work you're doing.

What tips do you have for leaders that are in this space right now of like, this works for me, or this is something to keep in mind as you are trying to push new ideas out there. And when it does feel some days, those concrete days, how do we refresh? What's your, I would love as one professional woman to another to hear your tactics. I'm like, this is how, this is like what I call real self care, not just go take a bubble bath. Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (26:33.976)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (26:42.112)
Right, right, no, not. There are no bubble baths happening here. Yeah. really? I actually love them, but my kids won't let me.

Layci (26:43.881)
Yeah, me either. actually don't like them, but yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (26:53.742)
So I found a few patterns actually over the years that have helped me. So one, I love that you mentioned physical health. So if I don't move and even with my clients, we don't call it exercise, we just call it movement. How can you move? I don't care how, just find a way to move. So for me, either very long walks with a nice podcast in my ear and I'm just kinda going, or I just got into rebounding. Have you tried that? It's.

Layci (27:00.967)
Mm

Mm -hmm.

Layci (27:07.431)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (27:20.815)
No, tell me more!

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (27:22.444)
Fantastic. It's like adult trampoline, basically.

Layci (27:26.882)
my gosh, is it the little, you get your little mini trampoline and then you hold on and bounce? That looks so fun.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (27:29.654)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It really is very fun. I am loving it.

Layci (27:37.021)
It's probably good for pelvic floor health too as I'm thinking about the benefits of.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (27:41.578)
It's a possibly, I mean, I'm feeling like it's wonderful for everything. Like your joints don't hurt and you feel energized. It's great for lymphatic drainage. If you need that kind of help, like it's, I'm so happy with it. So it's like moving. Moving is a non -negotiable for me every single day. It has to happen. And the other thing I've noticed is I need to continue nurturing my creative side.

Layci (27:45.435)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (27:52.017)
Yep. Love it. I love it.

Layci (28:10.789)
Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (28:11.19)
I think there's a direct and indirect impact on work when I let that fade away. And when I'm so focused on the nitty gritty and the data and the numbers and the whatever compared to when I stop and I just do some art or I have gotten into scrapbooking, which I never thought I would do. And it's just so light and fun and fluffy and lovely and I'm terrible at it, but it's great.

Layci (28:15.271)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Layci (28:28.019)
Mm

Layci (28:39.283)
but it takes you where you need to go. That's great.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (28:41.374)
Exactly. It almost feels like a nice stretch and flexibility exercise for my brain. Because when I can do something that's so different and pushes me to go farther in a way that my work maybe doesn't require, I do think it affects the way that I show up the next day at work and how I understand questions or understand problems that need solutions or whatever. Or I finally, like I start to see

Layci (28:50.706)
Yes.

Yes.

Layci (28:59.635)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (29:03.561)
Mmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (29:10.744)
possibility in places that I felt like those doors were closed, you know? Yeah.

Layci (29:14.013)
Yes, I love those moments. Yes, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that. That's so valuable. Definitely resonate. My music is my equivalent of scrapbooking for you. That is my brain gets to do something totally different. And yeah, absolutely. Okay, this has been so good. I feel like we could talk for like a whole entire day, but I think neither one of us.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (29:26.688)
Yes.

Yes.

Layci (29:41.211)
nor our listeners want a whole entire day. So what I'm going to do now is invite you into the confetti to step into the confessional and share. We're gonna switch gears to share your story of a time you got it really wrong and you just screwed up in this leadership journey and how it has impacted and shaped the way you lead today.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (30:05.675)
Ooh, yes. I mean, there's so many to choose from.

Layci (30:10.919)
Right? Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (30:13.704)
But you know, I think the one that comes to mind that is probably the biggest one is the moment when I did not take the risk.

Layci (30:24.525)
Mmm. Tell me more.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (30:27.95)
So I'm thinking, I'm trying to remember how long ago it was, it probably a few years ago. I had this idea of a program that I wanted to create for medical providers. I'm thinking this must have been like 2021 or so. Burnout was really starting to come to the forefront, of course, it's gotten even worse since then.

Layci (30:48.755)
Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (30:54.582)
And it was inspired by a client that I was working with at the time who was a C -suite leader at her company and was same deal, right? Had gone through medical trauma and recognized it was showing up at work and didn't want that anymore. I went, huh, this is going on for medical professionals as well. I want to, and I was starting to think about it. I was starting to think about it. It's starting to come together. Like, I could do this. I could do that. And a combination of

Layci (31:06.355)
Hmm?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (31:24.256)
and feeling like I needed to be perfect and have the perfect pitch with feeling like, I don't belong here in these spaces, and feeling like, well, nobody's gonna listen to me. Who am I? All that came together. there was a particular hospital that I wanted to pitch to for their providers. I already had contact into...

Layci (31:32.7)
Mmm.

Layci (31:39.497)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (31:51.148)
that network, I knew the people, like it was going to be so easy and I didn't do it. And later I found out that one of the providers there who would have possibly come to this whatever thing I was going to offer them ended up with serious health issues and couldn't go back to work anymore. And I just went, my God. Like not that I could necessarily save them. don't think in...

Layci (31:57.234)
Mm.

Layci (32:14.973)
Yeah.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (32:19.25)
magic terms like that, but what if it could have helped for them to maybe get the care they needed from their healthcare providers? Or, you my head went in those directions of could we have prevented this somehow if I had just spoken up? And I think that's, if I think about all the mistakes I've made, there's a common theme for me of moments where I didn't use my voice because I doubted myself, or I didn't think it was powerful enough, or I didn't think it was going to be.

Layci (32:34.098)
Yes.

Layci (32:43.443)
Mmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (32:48.192)
wanted in those spaces. Yeah.

Layci (32:49.341)
Yes. okay. Powerful lesson. Painful on many fronts. What are you doing now when you feel, how is that changing you when you feel that if you say it's a common thread, it's probably a tendency, you still are having to work on the awareness? What are you, how is that, how are you working through that today?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (32:54.542)
I can't.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (33:08.984)
Yes.

Layci (33:16.219)
In knowing that, you have the awareness. Okay, now what are you doing with the awareness?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (33:16.686)
here.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (33:20.302)
Totally. So kind of roundabout, I'm doing two things. Kind of roundabout is I am really getting back into vocal lessons and back into singing, which I had stopped doing before, which totally helped. I know it sounds ridiculous, but just literally using your voice in a way that makes you feel good. have the most wonderful vocal coach who's so good about this. So there are times when I have to write an email or I have to...

you know, prepare a pitch and I can feel it happening again and I'll stop and I'll go sing a song that has nothing to do with anything, just to practice using my voice, you know? And I think the other thing is I'm recognizing those moments when they happen and kind of going, okay, what is the smallest thing that I can say right now? And committing to that because as long as I can keep practicing saying something,

Layci (33:51.581)
Yeah. yay. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Layci (34:10.109)
Mmm.

Layci (34:13.693)
Mm -hmm.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (34:17.26)
And truthfully, getting comfortable with saying, I don't know yet, but I'd love to figure it out with you, right? And not having to have a perfect pitch, like that doesn't happen here. It's more, let's talk about this. And if this feels great, let's figure it out together.

Layci (34:21.181)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (34:33.775)
Mm -hmm. I love that. What great insight. Every listener, please, please know she is speaking some hard solid truth right now about understanding ourselves and recognizing that when we're holding back and then, yes, practicing and singing. Hello. That's what I love to do. my gosh, what a great conversation. Parijat, we could go all day, but as I said, probably shouldn't. So,

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (34:53.548)
Yes!

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (35:03.213)
I'm

Layci (35:04.669)
Where, if people are as intrigued and excited for this work you're doing, as I'm finding myself in this conversation, where do we find you? We'll drop everything in the show notes, so all the links will be there, but just generally, what's the best way to connect with you if people are like, I wanna learn more, or I just, I wanna talk to the, or I wanna connect with this woman? What's the best way to do that?

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (35:27.874)
Yeah, best way, easiest way is to come to our website at ruvell .com. From there, you have links to all of our resources, our shop, all of our social media accounts, email, like everything is housed right there. So go there first and then you'll find what you need.

Layci (35:33.768)
Okay.

Layci (35:43.325)
Beautiful. Fantastic. We will drop that in the notes. Thank you for your time today. This has been just a fantastic conversation. I've sincerely enjoyed every minute. And my gosh, I have a feeling we'll be hopefully talking again in the future as your work continues to unfold and more lessons learned that you're willing to share with all of us. So thank you for being on the show.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (35:56.278)
Likewise.

Parijat (PAH-ree-jaath) (36:08.696)
Thanks so much, Lacey.

Layci (36:10.385)
and listeners until next time, go manage like a leader.