S3, Ep. 13: Living A Values-Based Life, feat. Robert MacPhee of Excellent Decisions

Layci (00:01.336)
Hello listeners and welcome back to Confessions of a Terrible Leader. I'm your host and let us not forget former terrible leader, Lacey Nelson. Today, I am so pleased to welcome Robert McVie to the show. Robert has an extensive background in helping others really figure out who they are, how they move through this world, leading other people and

He is a coach, he is a facilitator, and he is also the founder of Values Based Life. And he is just, has so much wealth of experience, depth of experience. I can't wait to hop in. Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert MacPhee (00:52.723)
Thank you, I'm so glad to be here. It's good to meet you and your amazing producer, lurking in the background.

Layci (00:57.558)
I know she is fantastic. She is fantastic. She's amazing. She, she, always say if anything sounds nice or looks good, I probably didn't do it myself. She's fantastic. Yes. Yes. Thank you for being here. I am just fascinated with your journey to where you're at now. So for our listeners that are meeting you for the first time,

Robert MacPhee (01:08.595)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good leadership lesson right out of the gate, right?

Layci (01:27.374)
How did you arrive at this current pathway that you are on in life? Your story is fascinating, but I will not do it justice. I would love to hear you tell us how you got here.

Robert MacPhee (01:42.459)
All right. Well, yeah, when you get to be my age, you don't want to really start at the beginning because we'll be here all day. But I'll give you kind of three, three quick steps. Actually, when I first graduated from college, a very good friend of mine and I started an entrepreneurial journey. And that was really, really my first business experience of leadership, just kind of by accident because we started this company. So he and I were the leaders and it was just a summer job. It was actually a parking company and we were doing valet parking for restaurants and

Layci (02:02.584)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (02:11.347)
Northern San Diego on the beach. And it was so successful, it actually turned into like a career. Like seven years later, we had over 400 employees and we were all over Southern California and it was really great. But it was all kind of accidental. was just two college kids doing the best they could to kind of figure it out along the way. And from doing that, like we got to a point where we had to be learning how to like manage the growth and deal with managers and teams and all those kinds of things.

Layci (02:31.331)
Yep.

Layci (02:38.797)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (02:41.561)
And I actually went to a one -day workshop and it was one of these like career trackers, skill path or something like that. I don't even know. I don't remember what the topic was, but the woman who was leading the workshop held up a set of audio tapes by Jack Canfield, who's the co -creator of the Chicken Soup for the Soul books and wrote the success principles, which is really the core of his work and talked about his work. And I said, that sounds really interesting. So I bought this set of tapes.

Layci (02:49.048)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (02:59.191)
Yes.

Robert MacPhee (03:08.819)
And that led me on a journey to actually working with Jack. I actually, my partner bought me out of the parking company and I was working with Jack for about 10 years and he's

Layci (03:14.946)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (03:18.87)
Okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up. How do you go from buying his set of tapes to working with the man? Like, how did that?

Robert MacPhee (03:30.675)
It's such a good question. And people would ask me when I was working with Jack and I actually, over a period of time, became the director of training. So I was on stage with him. I was introducing him. I was facilitating part of the content. And people would see me on stage and go, I want to do what he's doing. And they would ask the same question you asked. Like, I want your job. Like, how do I get your job? I want to work with Jack. I'd say, well, here's what you do. You go to his training.

Layci (03:39.116)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (03:48.355)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (03:54.961)
And then you go to his training again, because you really want to get even more depth. And then you have your wife go to his training and then you volunteer to be on the assisting teams that support the training. And you do that for a few years. And then because you are really committed to that, you get asked to be the leader of those teams, which talk about leadership. That was one of the most profound leadership experiences I've ever had in my life, leading the assisting teams that were supporting Jack's work, which is so profound.

Layci (03:55.032)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (04:17.063)
Mmm.

Robert MacPhee (04:24.347)
Yeah, we could do a whole episode on just just that little chapter of my life. But but and then from leading those assisting teams, I took on a larger role, which was director of training. And I was running mastermind programs for him and doing all sorts of things around not the chicken soup for the soul part of his business, because that was completely separate, but the whole training side of doing workshops and mastermind groups and all of that kind of stuff. And actually, as we're recording this on Saturday, I'm seeing

Layci (04:27.436)
Yeah.

Layci (04:42.531)
Yeah.

Layci (04:48.984)
incredible.

Robert MacPhee (04:53.947)
Jack's 80th birthday party. So he and I have stayed very close and he's a good friend and still a mentor and a teacher.

Layci (04:56.703)
my gosh.

Layci (05:01.92)
Yeah. my gosh. What an amazing story. Sorry to interrupt. just, couldn't, my brain could not not ask that question. So.

Robert MacPhee (05:08.879)
No, no, and well, and I didn't want to take up all that time because it is, you know, people think, you know, do I just fill out an application and I'll be the next director? No, it's like a very long step -by -step accidental kind of journey.

Layci (05:24.332)
Yeah, yeah. Well, an investment, right? Like it was at one point, it was no longer accidental. That was very intentional, I would imagine, to stay connected. Not knowing where it would end, but knowing I want to invest in this. This is something that's in so much in alignment with me. I can't not be part of it.

Robert MacPhee (05:34.235)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (05:42.075)
Yeah, well, it was also, think, a really good example of something that I noticed coming up as I listened to other episodes of your podcast, which is a lot of times people get asked to be put or get asked to be in a leadership position or are put in a leadership position, not necessarily because they've exhibited all the really great skills that a leader needs to have, but because they're really good at what they do. And earlier in my career, that happened to me several times. Like I was committed to doing whatever I was doing really well. It's kind of

Layci (06:00.45)
Right. Right.

Layci (06:09.996)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (06:10.279)
big part of the success of our parking company was we were committed to doing it really well. We weren't just going to, you know, kind of slack off, but, but you end up being asked to be a leader. And in some cases that's fine. Cause people have that capacity, but in other cases it can be like a fish out of water kind of thing where people who are really good bartenders are suddenly trying to run a restaurant and it's a whole different deal.

Layci (06:17.409)
Right.

Layci (06:27.334)
yeah. yeah.

Layci (06:34.284)
Yeah, it is a different skill set. is completely different deal. All right. Thank you for taking us on that little side journey back to the story. So working, working with Jack, working for Jack and then

Robert MacPhee (06:48.711)
I didn't even finish my journey. Yes. I'm not working for Jack anymore. I'm just hanging out with him. Yeah. So the third biggest part of it, and there's been multiple iterations of that is, you know, my, kind of went as far as I could go with my work with Jack and, and then moved into doing similar work with coaching and consulting on my own. created a program called excellent decisions, which was based on helping people make decisions.

and take actions based on their vision and values rather than all the external stress and pressure that we're all under in today's world. then the next refinement, which is really where I'm focused now, was the realization that vision and values, that's great. My kids used to say, my God, vision and values, enough to add with the vision and the values. But I realized it's great to have a really powerful vision and it's important and valuable to have a really great vision.

Layci (07:19.99)
Yes.

Robert MacPhee (07:42.447)
If your vision is not aligned with your values, it's probably not gonna go very well. It's not gonna get you where you really wanna go. So I really zeroed in on the values part of it because I realized I had to come first. And I still do work on vision. I still believe it's really, really important, but it starts with values in my work now, helping people clarify their values. And that's where the new book came from, the Living a Value -based Life book.

Layci (07:49.58)
Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (08:10.395)
I learned just how crazy it is. Like most people, they know how important values are. Nobody says values, that's stupid. You know, why would I want them? But if you really push people and say, well, can you articulate what your highest values are? Most people can't. And so in today's world with media and social media and friends and family and coworkers and bosses and everything else wanting us to do stuff, most people are living their life in alignment with other people's values instead of their own because they

Layci (08:17.697)
Right, right.

Layci (08:25.155)
No.

Layci (08:33.827)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (08:39.751)
They don't know what their highest values are.

Layci (08:41.238)
Right, right. Or they just say, well, I guess this sounds good, but it's not theirs. Exactly right. it's, yeah. Yeah. my goodness. What important work, such important work. Also something we focus on here is getting really clear on what are your personal values. And I am often even working with people leading, you know, nine figure companies. I am met with

Robert MacPhee (08:48.081)
Yeah, or in just in the moment. Yeah.

Layci (09:11.97)
blank stares, like deer in headlights, or they'll start reciting the company values. I'm like, that's not what I asked for.

Robert MacPhee (09:13.927)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (09:18.344)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, and there's some really interesting research about the fact that for both leaders and for all the way to frontline people, like the real keys to engagement and in creating a kind of culture that people really want to have in their organization, being an organization where people really love to work there has more to do with the people in the organization and their connection to their personal values than it does to their connection and their ability to recite the organizational values.

Layci (09:50.518)
yeah, a million percent. Okay, so how do you help people come to this realization that they need this connection to their own values? I mean, because everyone thinks it sounds great, but doing the work to get there is usually not, it's not simple. It might be easy, it's not, or it might be simple, it's not an easy, it's not an easy pathway, and it's not immediate.

Robert MacPhee (10:11.003)
It isn't. Yeah, it really isn't.

Robert MacPhee (10:18.643)
Absolutely. And actually my own approach and the approach that's in the book, it does something very unique and different in the space of doing values work. Cause I divide values into two separate categories. And the reason I do that is not incredibly scientific. But about 15 years ago, I was doing values work cause I knew they were important. And I knew in order for me to get where I wanted to go, it would be really helpful to be really clear about my values. And yet I was doing the values work in exact

Layci (10:39.82)
Mm -hmm

Robert MacPhee (10:47.933)
kind of way that you're describing it. was confusing. And like the results I was getting didn't feel like I was gonna remember it and be able to apply it. And it just like, and I tried several different like methodologies that are out there. And so many of them basically come down to looking at a list and picking the ones you like and then narrowing it down to your top five and voila, know, core values. And it just wasn't working for me.

Layci (10:50.914)
Yeah.

Layci (10:57.719)
Yeah.

Layci (11:07.342)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Layci (11:11.36)
Yeah, yeah.

Layci (11:16.078)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (11:16.147)
And I tell people I've been doing this work for like 25 years and I only have three pieces of original content. And one of them is a very unique way of discovering core values. And that is by separating them into two categories. And the two categories we call priorities. Like my priorities are the areas of my life, the things that are important to me. Like for me, it's things like my relationship with my children and the contribution that I'm making and my health and wellbeing.

Layci (11:30.571)
Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Layci (11:38.798)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (11:45.581)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (11:45.745)
and building a successful business. These are things like nouns that are important to me. And then there's a whole separate category that I call ways of being, which is this is how I wanna show up in the world. These are the qualities and characteristics that I really wanna exhibit. Like I want people to say, wow, he's a really caring person. I love how humble he is. Those are, and they're both values, but they're different, right? Like my relationship with my children is different.

Layci (11:49.176)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (12:05.304)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (12:10.914)
Right, right.

Robert MacPhee (12:15.025)
than humility. And I thought they were both, they were both in the category of values and all the values work I did put them on the same list. And then I was like, eh, that doesn't really work. But as soon as I separated them, I had a list that I could look at and say, am I spending my time and attention on the things that are most important to me or not? Yes or no? I mean, I either am or I'm not. And am I showing up in the world? These are aspirational values.

Layci (12:16.674)
Right, right.

Layci (12:26.178)
yeah.

Layci (12:35.982)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Layci (12:44.236)
Yeah. Okay.

Robert MacPhee (12:44.989)
We can also look at our current life and say, okay, what am I doing? Where am I putting my time? How am I behaving? Those are my current values. But I like to really focus on aspirational values and get people moving in the direction of where they really want to be. But I could look at those two lists and self -assess in any given moment and identify the areas that I really wanted to be doing things differently and then decide, you know.

Layci (12:50.971)
Right.

Layci (12:58.232)
Right.

Layci (13:07.48)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (13:09.875)
What kind of actions can I take? What can I do differently to create more of the results or experiences that I want? And suddenly values became helpful to me. And the true confession built into it. So like I said, I told you I did that like 15 years ago or something and it worked great for me. And you'd think as a coach and a consultant, I would build it into my practice and start using it with all my clients. And the truth is I didn't until about two years ago.

Layci (13:18.156)
Right, right, ugh.

Layci (13:27.053)
Right.

Layci (13:35.148)
okay.

Robert MacPhee (13:37.275)
I was doing another project and we had to bring some values work into it was a social justice project and we were working on getting people to really tap into how important social justice issues really were to them because they weren't responding to what we were offering. And that's where these two categories came up and I was like, why haven't I been sharing this with people?

Layci (13:50.73)
Mm -hmm. Mm.

Layci (13:58.702)
Right, could you see the lights come on when the first time you did it in a...

Robert MacPhee (14:02.895)
It was embarrassing to have to admit to the woman I was working with, like, yeah, it works really well. This is really great. And we were building this model with the two categories. she's like, my God, this is amazing. And I was like, maybe. But it turned out to be a blessing because it did get me to really zero in and focus on values and a unique way of helping people with values clarification. And it's probably the easiest.

Layci (14:23.02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (14:31.517)
thing I've easiest concept in this world of coaching and consulting that I've ever had to share with people. Because again, people don't go values. I don't need I don't need to know my values. That's not important. People get it right away and want to know more. So that's been good.

Layci (14:38.774)
Mmm.

Layci (14:44.482)
Right, right. Yes, yes. I'm gonna pause just a second. I gotta switch over. I realized I'm running off my wifi and not my ethernet. Sorry, editor. Okay. Sorry, leave. All right. There we go. Okay, I think we're back. All right, okay. And picking up one, two, three.

So Robert, what are some of the flags that if I'm a listener and I'm like, I think I'm living in alignment, but I'm not 100 % sure. Like when you're working with people, what are flags to look for that actually I might need to do some more refinement with my core values or I'm living out of alignment currently with my core values, but maybe I don't know it. What are flags?

that come up that can point me to needing to dig into that work further.

Robert MacPhee (15:47.645)
Well, I think that the basic thing that's most valuable for people is to do the initial work. I mean, I would love to say even this, I'm thrilled that people who are going through this process that we've created are ending up with something in terms of the two separate lists that's really helpful to them. But there's still a process of clarifying and reflecting and refining the language. I mean, I've been doing this work for many years with my own values and I'm still like refining and changing and adjusting depending on life circumstances.

Layci (16:02.124)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (16:13.559)
Right.

Robert MacPhee (16:17.343)
And I had a huge traumatic event like three years ago in my life and it changed my values. Like it affected my values and what's most important to me and where I'm putting my time and attention. So life changes and just, you know, going through the journey of life, my values, you if I look back to when I was in high school, thank God my values are very different now than they were then. So, my God, yes.

Layci (16:21.896)
Mm. Mm.

Layci (16:40.398)
Aren't we glad social media didn't exist when we were in high school?

Robert MacPhee (16:46.691)
Well, and this is another interesting point about values with young people. I talk about excellent decisions and making decisions based on vision and values instead of external stress and pressure. If you think about our young people today, really starting in middle school and the stress and the pressure that they're under and the decisions that they're being asked to make, and they're just kids.

And if they do make a mistake, like you said, social media and everybody's got a video camera in their pocket at all times. I think of a few things I did in college is I'm pretty glad weren't captured on video by one of my friends and put on the internet for perpetuity. So there really is a tremendous amount of stress and pressure that our young people are under. And, you know, my kids grew up while I was working with Jack.

Layci (17:19.298)
Right. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Layci (17:32.878)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (17:32.955)
And I call that my unfair advantage. So they understand these principles of taking responsibility and knowing what your values are and being a leader and effective communication and asking for help. All these things like we didn't have a flip chart and a PowerPoint presentation at dinner every night, but they grew up like just being in these kinds of conversations. Yeah.

Layci (17:35.372)
Yeah.

Layci (17:43.544)
Yes.

Layci (17:52.154)
they're swimming in the water, right? Like it's just part of who they are and how they think. Similarly, my boys right now, I've got a freshman going in, a kid going into his freshman year of high school. And then I have a middle schooler. And this last year, the boys actually this summer, a proud mama moment, they play seventh in the nation as a little team.

Robert MacPhee (17:58.311)
Yeah, yeah.

Layci (18:20.358)
in the Technology Student Association for leadership strategies.

Robert MacPhee (18:25.157)
so cool. They're listening to mom's podcast. I love it.

Layci (18:30.85)
because yeah, same thing, not a flip chart, we're not going over slides, but they've just been swimming in those waters since they were tiny and how much they take in is, it was astonishing.

Robert MacPhee (18:42.129)
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, yeah. And I seek out opportunities to work with young people, not as part of like my main business, because I've learned the hard way that like actually making money in that environment of working with young people is a very difficult thing to do. But I feel so grateful for having had the opportunity to learn all the things I learned while I was parenting my kids, especially when they were really young in those formative years. And if you look around, you don't have to look very far to see that most parents don't have that. mean,

Layci (18:57.558)
Yep.

Layci (19:05.55)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (19:12.098)
Right. Yeah, I feel the same. Yep.

Robert MacPhee (19:12.103)
That's my, I call it my unfair advantage because most parents, yeah, most parents are just kind of like finding their way through as best they can with what their parents did and whatever they can kind of cobble up on the side. And it's hard. And I think it's, you know, it's the most important work we do. So.

Layci (19:21.696)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (19:28.012)
Yeah. I mean, not that we still don't make plenty of other mistakes. always tease my kids. I'm like, yes, college, know, colleges, if you want to, if that pathway is right for them, which they're both kind of trending that way, but we'll see. We'll see where they land. you know, don't, I tell them, don't save for college, save for therapy because mom and dad are doing our best, but we're still, we're not going to get everything right. yeah.

Robert MacPhee (19:56.369)
Yep, I agree. It's not a matter of whether they're going to be in a therapy. It's just a matter of what they're going to be talking about.

Layci (19:57.869)
Yeah.

Layci (20:02.634)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like, I hope we're not a main star, but we might be. So as parents in the therapy sessions, but.

Robert MacPhee (20:10.931)
Well, that's so your story is so cool to that one that they're accomplishing at that level, but two that there sounds like they're doing it together.

Layci (20:18.77)
They, well, they were in the Technology Student Association together at school, TSA, which I always have to say the whole thing because I've been like, your kids are doing airport training? Like, what? So they were doing it together, but they both were in the club and my oldest son placed first in the nation for structural engineering. And because he had that

Robert MacPhee (20:24.571)
huh.

Robert MacPhee (20:28.797)
Yeah.

Layci (20:48.12)
coming up and happening and was definitely, he placed very high in the state, so he was gonna automatically go. Little brother, also who's in the club, got to go and got to be part of, and there was one more member of their team, part of that leadership strategies portion of the competition. They can select different areas to compete in, and they'd qualified high enough statewide to be able to compete at the next level.

It was it was pretty cute. They thought they absolutely bombed it after they went into the semis. I got to go with them and it was a super fun experience. They thought they bombed it and were just had written off. we're not going to move on. And then like the next day, later in the day, the list gets posted and all of us are just shocked that they had made it to the next level. And anyways, it was a really it was a really fun experience. And my boys are very close in age. So it is a

Robert MacPhee (21:38.999)
So cool

Layci (21:47.67)
It has been neat to see where they're in alignment with each other and the things they like to do, but they're also two like extremely different humans. anyways, enough about me.

Robert MacPhee (21:56.967)
Yeah. Well, but before you go on though, let me, can help you bring it back because I think what just happened was you and I really aligning on a value that's really important to both of us. Like I can tell listening to you that being a mom and in your relationships with your boys is really, really important to you. Like if we did this work of exploring your highest priorities, I'm guessing if it's not number one, it's really close. And so even though we're in this conversation about leadership and all this,

Layci (22:09.284)
Mmm, mm -hmm.

Layci (22:22.04)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (22:25.677)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (22:26.257)
Like eventually our values will pull us in the direction of the things that are most important and sometimes find ways that we align. And I see it happening all the time.

Layci (22:34.412)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the reason I started my business was so I could live a life that allowed me to be present and show up for my kids when I wanted to, which is a lot.

Robert MacPhee (22:50.205)
Yeah, I travel a lot right now for my work, but I made a conscious choice when I was younger and they were a lot younger and at home. They're way out of the house now. But yeah, I wanted to be there and it probably cost me some revenue during those periods of time, but it was what was most important to me.

Layci (22:57.335)
Yeah.

Layci (23:04.119)
Yeah.

Layci (23:07.916)
Yeah, same.

Absolutely. And also, I drag them with me on occasions to pull them out of school.

Robert MacPhee (23:18.919)
Field trip!

Layci (23:19.402)
Or, yep, yep. And they're doing great. I mean, they're both straight A students, which has very little to do with myself. I was not a straight A student. So yeah, yeah.

Robert MacPhee (23:29.895)
Yeah, my oldest daughter was a PhD graduate. She's up close to you kind of. She's in Seattle. She went to University of Washington and got a PhD in math and data science. And I say it skips generations because I'm like, she tries to explain what she's doing. And I'm like, OK, that's great. Good luck with that. Yeah.

Layci (23:41.174)
my gosh.

Yeah.

Layci (23:48.462)
know what, that sounds great. Can we talk about people?

So I love this conversation. It is so true. When you hit that alignment and your values are aligned, you feel this spark, right, with people. And when we're others and we're working with conflict in the workplace, one of the things that we often say is something to dig into and look for is you either have an actual or perceived core value misalignment with somebody that you're really struggling with.

And if you were to encourage our listeners, like, hey, do this work. This is really valuable. What's a good place to start? you think, know, yeah, I mean, there's some way, if they're listening to this podcast, if they're engaged in the work that we're doing, this is likely not the first time they're familiar with core values, but maybe they've not really done the work of digging in.

What's something very practical they could do today to start understanding what their core values are? I mean, your list is great. Is there a pathway to start with that split?

Robert MacPhee (25:05.383)
Well, at a minimum, someone could start with literally what we've already talked about, my explanation of those two categories. And one of the things I often see in my conversations kind of introducing people to the work that I do as I start by talking about the importance of values. And again, it's not a difficult sell, know, so I don't have to spend six weeks explaining the importance of people kind of get that really quickly. And that lands them in the place like, okay, these values is really important. And then they land in, I don't know mine.

Layci (25:11.031)
Yeah.

Layci (25:18.733)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (25:23.586)
Right, yeah.

Layci (25:32.11)
Mmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (25:32.435)
And if I'm talking to someone in person, I can literally see it on their face. They're like, my God, he's gonna ask me what my values are and I don't know. But as soon as they hear this idea that there's actually a new way to do it, there's these two categories. And the answer to your question of like how to start is someone could take what they just learned about these two categories. And my explanation of one is,

Layci (25:36.12)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Layci (25:45.134)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (25:57.743)
is these priorities, like what is most important to you, which you could explore on your own by simply sitting down with a blank piece of paper and asking yourself the question, what is important to me? Over and over again, just like make a list of the things that are important to you and keep going, like give yourself like five minutes and just keep answering, keep answering. Because so often, and again, in today's world, we say what's important to me? Well, making a lot of money and having a bigger house and.

Layci (26:01.326)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (26:10.008)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (26:25.981)
two more cars and whatever, all the things that the world tells us should be important. But once those things are already on your list, if you're still asking, you'll start getting to the really juicy stuff, you know, like the relationships in your life and making a difference in the world and these kinds of things. And then once you have a list, you can then look at it and say, okay, from that experience of asking this question, what shows up as the most important?

Layci (26:27.54)
Right. Tells us, yeah.

Layci (26:36.94)
Yeah. Yep.

Layci (26:51.672)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (26:51.833)
And we have people go through a more in -depth process where not just asking an intellectual question, but doing more heart centered work and a visualization process, really tapping in on a deep level. But just to start, someone could literally ask themselves the question, what is important to me? And make that list. And now you're in the game. Now you're really thinking about it. And you could take that top five list. And I always have three by five cards within arm's reach here, and you could put them on a card and

Layci (26:58.296)
Yeah.

Mmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (27:13.836)
Right, right.

Layci (27:20.396)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (27:21.851)
you know, stick it to your computer screen or on your bathroom mirror or your whatever, your car, wherever you spend a lot of time and keep it in front of you and remember and start moving in the direction of making your decisions and taking your actions based on what you've decided is most important to you. And then on the other side, you can do the same thing with your ways of being.

Layci (27:38.744)
Yeah, I love that.

Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (27:44.467)
It's not really a question, it's more of like a sentence completion thing that we invite people to do, which is to say, it's important to me to be what? Like, and again, for me, it's important to be caring. It's important to me to be aware. It's important to me to be humble. And you could do the same thing, backside of the same sheet of paper, right? Like you could just make a list and then look at that list and say, what are the five?

Layci (27:55.394)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (28:02.495)
Mm. Mm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (28:14.075)
I always give people six if they can't narrow it down to five, right? Like, what are the five or six most important ways, the ways you really wanna be? know, when people meet you, you want them to walk away going, wow, he's really blank, whatever. And it's different for all of us. But again, people, I'd love it if they, you know, you can go to valuespacelife .com and you can get the book, you can sign up for an online course, we have a leaders program, there's all sorts of things we could do if someone's interested. But literally to...

Layci (28:17.175)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Layci (28:27.682)
Yes, yes.

Layci (28:37.122)
Yeah. Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (28:42.311)
to get started listening to this podcast, you kind of got started, because we've already gone through that process of, you know it's important. You're reminded that it's important. You've gone through, hopefully really quickly, we've taken through that like shame stage of, I should know my values and and now we're in this conversation like, okay, there's actually something we can do about it. So that's really, again, I love it when people...

Layci (28:48.248)
You're already thinking about

Yes. Yes.

Layci (28:58.731)
Right.

Robert MacPhee (29:08.443)
I woke up this morning and I had a book order sitting right on my computer screen. I love that. But if people don't want to wait for the book or whatever, you can take what we've talked about here and get started on this process of clarifying, discovering and clarifying. And the subtitle of the book is Discover, Clarify and Live in Alignment, which is really my mission is to help people really be living their highest values.

Layci (29:11.638)
Yay!

Layci (29:16.909)
Yeah.

Layci (29:30.007)
Love it.

Robert MacPhee (29:35.085)
You know this, you work with organizations, and you talked about it earlier, know, it's a plaque up on the wall with our values. And then all the employees are like, what a joke that is, because we don't live in alignment with any of those values. It's actually hurting your culture instead of helping it. Yeah. So the living in alignment is really the exciting part of the values work.

Layci (29:38.232)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (29:44.278)
Right? Right.

A million percent, yes.

Layci (29:55.854)
I love this. All right, I'm gonna switch gears on us, Robert. You touched on it maybe a little bit or maybe you have something else for us here, but it's confession time. Are you ready to step into the confessional? I am pretty sure.

Robert MacPhee (30:07.069)
you

Robert MacPhee (30:12.421)
Absolutely, I love that you do this. I also love that you warn people that you're gonna do it too. like I said, I listened to some of your episodes beforehand. So my biggest problem was choosing which one. my God. Can I just use like general incompetence as like, general cluelessness.

Layci (30:21.25)
Yes. Right? Right? Say it.

Layci (30:30.796)
Right, right. think, yeah, I definitely am relating to that. If you are to pick one, what is the story that you are here to confess to our listeners today in your trajectory and your journey? Where did you screw up real good? And how does it impact the way that you move through the world today?

Robert MacPhee (30:51.411)
Well, I really appreciate the question because it really did make me kind of reflect over my career and look at like, were the moments, like what were the teaching moments? And I went all the way back to, I told you when I first graduated from college, I was running this parking company and I was kind of thrust into this leadership role. And what I was doing so much of was focusing on what other people think, number one, and specifically thinking as the leader that I needed to have all the answers.

Layci (30:55.991)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (30:59.576)
Yeah.

Layci (31:05.004)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (31:14.734)
Mmm.

Layci (31:20.068)
gosh.

Robert MacPhee (31:21.241)
And it was killing me. Like it was just like, it's such an unwinnable game to want to have all the answers. And, and I actually had the opportunity in a meeting with one of our clients. We were already working with one of their restaurants and we were pitching them to work with a couple of those, a chain of restaurants. And we were pitching them to work with a couple of others. And I remember going into this meeting, like have to have all the answers, you know, I to be ready and they're going to ask this and I'll be like, and I was just like all wound up and.

Layci (31:28.481)
Yes.

Robert MacPhee (31:50.277)
And the person that we met with, his name was Sandy Saxton. And I will never forget, he was such a great mentor to me in this moment because we went into this meeting and I was all my wound up self and I watched him and he was older and very successful restaurateur. And, I watched him and I was like, he's not doing that. He's not wound up like, and he knows so much more than I know, but he has no need.

Layci (31:57.276)
Mm.

Layci (32:12.322)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (32:18.187)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (32:20.435)
to like have all the answers. And I watched how he showed up in that meeting, you know, something would come up that he hadn't thought about and he was very reflective and took his time and asked clarifying questions. and, and I was like, I want that experience instead of this experience. And, and I really could probably tell like, like that's many years ago now for me.

Layci (32:22.744)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (32:35.473)
Yes!

Layci (32:42.795)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (32:43.815)
But I remember that experience so profoundly, again, that being a leader is not only not about having all the answers, but it's being willing to just be open and transparent about the fact that you don't know, but you wanna know and you can find out if you need to kind of thing. So that totally changed the way I approached leadership. I don't think it changed the hard wiring, because I still have a tendency to do that, but I become aware and I stop it.

Layci (32:55.982)
Don't. Yeah. Yeah.

I love that.

Layci (33:09.718)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, yep.

Robert MacPhee (33:13.639)
You know, like, ever see that Bob Newhart video from many years ago? Bob Newhart as a therapist and his therapy is just, stop it! Stop it! That was really good. Yeah.

Layci (33:18.188)
I don't know. No. No, but I can visualize.

That's fantastic. Yes, and what a powerful lesson and how, what a blessing you got to learn it so early on, right? That you got to have that seed planted. As a young, my younger days, I wish I would have learned that faster. I managed to get it in before I was 30, but man, it was not fun getting there, so.

Robert MacPhee (33:39.037)
Yeah.

Robert MacPhee (33:52.145)
Yeah, and now, so now when you see people doing that, don't you just like feel bad for them? Like, stop doing that. That's so exhausting. And it's not necessary because it's actually like, I had so much respect for him as a leader because he wasn't doing that even more than I would if he did, you know. And again, couldn't, none of us can have all the answers. So I like playing winnable games instead of unwinnable games.

Layci (33:59.456)
It's yes, yes.

Layci (34:08.236)
Right, right.

Layci (34:14.676)
No, there's so... Rights. Right, right. Yeah, no, we don't have all the answers. The second we think we do, we should be immediately recognizing that's a red flag, or that we should, right? Not even that we... Because we know we don't, which is part of the anxiety. We know we don't, but it's really scary. Yes, and we don't need to do that. No, I always... One of the...

Robert MacPhee (34:34.247)
Yeah, we're just trying to convince people that we do. Again, unwinnable, unwinnable game. Yeah.

Layci (34:42.806)
of phrases I like to use with our workshops and with our clients is like, stop shoulding all over yourself. Like let go of the shoulds. You should not actually know everything. There's no way that you can. What a powerful lesson. Thank you for sharing that with us.

Robert MacPhee (34:59.741)
Sure. Thank you for the question. Like I said, was, there were all sorts of things that could have been on that list, but that was the one that it was such a great memory for me of a learning, a teaching moment. yeah.

Layci (35:06.42)
Yes. Yes.

Layci (35:12.812)
Yeah. When you're practicing self -awareness and you feel yourself, like how do you know that you're hit? Because you said you're hardwired that way and you still have that tendency. How do you shortstop or backstop it in yourself to make sure it what happens internally to cue you that like, yep, I want to do that thing again. I need to get it. I need to to not go down that path.

What is that internal process like for you?

Robert MacPhee (35:45.405)
Well, I think it's a process that gets developed over a pretty significant period of time. think people who are committed to lifelong learning and continuing to learn and grow become more and more open to that. And I do think over time it becomes easier to have the awareness and the ability to shift into kind of a better pattern. I see people who are out there promising to get rid of all your limiting beliefs. And I call BS on that because I don't, in my experience,

Layci (35:52.203)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (36:05.708)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (36:10.137)
gosh.

Robert MacPhee (36:15.599)
My personal experience in my work with my clients, I've never succeeded in getting rid of limiting beliefs. But what I believe people can do is they can increase their awareness of those kind of patterns that show up in the way that our limiting beliefs can be running our life. And we can learn all sorts of great new tools. People who are listening to this podcast are the type of people who are looking for great ideas and new ways to do better. And again, for me, like,

Layci (36:21.334)
Mmm.

Layci (36:25.518)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (36:30.84)
Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (36:43.679)
Stephen Covey said he who was good with a hammer thinks everything is a nail, right? But I go I go right back to values because if if your values are clear and you're living your life out of alignment with your values because you have that clarity you will notice it and Then you'll have to decide like am I gonna let that current pattern keep running the show or is this important enough to me to do something different and

Layci (36:46.998)
Yeah. Yeah.

Layci (37:00.426)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Layci (37:11.295)
Mmm.

Robert MacPhee (37:13.021)
Like the reason I was interested in being on a leadership podcast is I believe if someone is calling themselves a leader, if they really aren't clear about their own values, I question whether they really are a leader, because they're following something else other than their own values, other than what is most important to them. So I believe, and again, I admit to being biased, but I believe our values define us as a leader. The kind of leader I am is defined.

Layci (37:16.419)
Yeah.

Layci (37:34.178)
Yes.

Layci (37:39.448)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert MacPhee (37:42.353)
by what's most important to me.

Layci (37:45.09)
Yes, yes, I love that. Thank you so much for your wisdom, for sharing your expertise with us today, with our listeners. Robert, for our listeners that are really resonating, like, where can they find you? What's the best way to get connected? We'll drop all the links in the show notes, but just shorthand, what's the best way to connect with you and your work?

Robert MacPhee (38:11.027)
So one of my values is simplicity. I'm not one of these people who has 27 gatekeepers. I'm not that hard to find. You can go to our website, which is valuesbasedlife .com and connect with me and learn more about the work that we're doing, whether you want to do work as an individual or in context with your organization or your team that you're leading. One of the things that's there is an opportunity to set up a call with me if you're interested in learning more and again, access to the resources like the book and the courses and the programs that we do.

Layci (38:36.301)
Mm -hmm.

Layci (38:41.42)
Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here today.

Robert MacPhee (38:43.741)
Thank you. You guys are great. love the opportunity to play and be challenged and asked to go into the confessional. And this has been really good. And I'm glad we're recording this really early in the morning where I am. And this is a great way to start my day. So thank you so much.

Layci (38:57.942)
Yes.

likewise, likewise. Thank you. listeners, thank you so much for being here again for another episode. And we know how we sign out around here. Until next time, go manage like a leader.